Technical Help Forum

To give an example. When I wanted to explore your pages, Iwould go to your homepage and select: Travel Pages (118). Than I would scroll down and see where you have "reviews" (you still know those as tips). Than I would select a page of interest to me, for instance: •Philadelphia (Intro, 31 reviews, 39 photos, 1 travelogue) On that pages I would select: Things to Do (12) (and would check if they come up in the "Member's Choice" order). ... start rating! PJ

I have to agree with you, Janet (and welcome back!). Whilst there are things I do like about the new format, I still find some things confusing and annoying and they put me off engaging with people's pages as much as I used to. Having to return to the intro to leave a comment is an unecessary complication and don't even get me started on the new "every photo displayed in landscape format".

Hello from another Australian member. I actually scroll past the travel page photos and go to the alphabetical list below the photos even though this list is not segregated as well as the photo list. For the comments box for a particular travel page we just discussed this on Misc a while back. Even thougt there are a few ways to overcome the problem of arriving at the particular comment box for the actual travel page you are rating I now use the breadcrumb trail ( or snail) Kiwi (Pam) taught me. Just go above the title of the review you are reading and click on the words (for example) wise23girls page on Buderim and it takes you to the main travel page and thenjust scroll to the comment box for the page your are looking at.

I am with Janet and Leyle on this one - and feel less and less inclined to create new pages. Like Leyle there are changes I like and are improvements but overall the new format is a turn-off to me (and I know to quite a few others).

VT Forum temporarily unavailable This was the disc about the snail/breadcrumb trail

I know how to find my way to the comments box, I just don't like the back-tracking needed to get there. What was wrong with having it available on all the various pages?

Apparently Leslie they are going to put a comment box with the actual reviews...soon But my reply was really to the OP who has come back after a time away ...I am sure you Lesley are very au fait with the new VT.

Agree with the OP; I wanted to rate a review the other day, and thought I was going mad. Eventually I was able to. OK, I'm getting old, (which shouldn't be either excuse or reason), but it doesn't actually encourage me to be massively active

Agree totally. This site is a confusing mess. Nobody rates anymore. Nobody leaves comments anymore. Promises about "future" improvements don't impress me.

Pawtuxet here... good morning! As always, you guys are the best. Thank you for your quick and complete responses. Also does my heart good to know others share my frustration. I'll practice your suggestions and try to get in the swing... although it would be nice to have a simpler more user friendly method. Still smilin!

I fully agree with the above comments. I have noticed that there are fewer new pages, fewer comments, etc... Myself, I have a lot of stuff available but don't feel that much like writing new pages that fewer and fewer will read.

I think you may be trying to rate people's intro pages, which is not possible. If you are on an intro page, such as: "The sleeping beauty is awake & has 7 leagues boots" - Albania by JLBG.. You must go down to the reviews below in the section titled "Reviews"and either select one of the showcased reviews, or select the category associated with each showcased review. The rating widget is located at the end of each review.

Well now I know how to go back easily to the main travel page ( after rating reviews) with the breadcrumb trai)....(thanks Kiwi)....life is so much more simple......yes I know there are other ways The person knows I have visited and if I come back again I know I have rated before which is a bonus to me as I forget .....and as re rates are not counted ...... So I am actually making more comments. I usually opt for "see all" to rate as this brings the reviews into a more tabular presentation which is easier to manage. Yes there are changes I do not like but if VT takes the worries of members seriously and in time pleases the majority I am prepared to give some "slack" It must be a massive task for the techs.... You fix one thing ...make a change...and sometimes there are unexpected results.

You're right there, Margaret, and there have been some good changes - I uploaded my first video last night and it was so easy - but it's a shame that some of the changes have made things more convoluted with the resultant disengagement from many long-standing and valuable members. Whether the falling off in people rating and contributing is down to these changes or to other factors (I have a theory about the impact of social networking on all sorts of activities, virtual and real)is something that will no doubt become the stuff of academic study. In my experience breadcrumb trails only lead to getting lost and falling into the hands of the wicked witch. Clear signposting and access means everyone can find their way home.

COmments are meant to be on every page and they're rolling out in the next phase. We have a long road map which I've shared with a lot of people. All of the additional categories are there and clearly able to navigate. If you take someone who isn't set in their ways and show them the new site compared to old, the improvement is wildly clear, especially if you look at the statistics. I think if you get used to something being a certain way, you'll find any change no matter how positive as being difficult. That said, if you look at the overall numbers it's almost 2-3x more page views by people. That means that people are sticking around longer getting engaged and see more stuff. That may not be the case for every single member who gets used to doing things a certain way, but it is an empirical fact that people are seeing and doing more on the site. Now...it's true that people have many more choices about places to contribute on the web. I mean in the 'old days' of VT there was no flickr, no facebook, no tumblr, no nothing so many people used VT as their social network, as their photo album, as their blog, as their forum hang out. It's a different world out there now and that's understandable. My goal now is to continue rolling out innovative, travel specific experience that is interesting, fun, and exciting to take part in and gives you an incredibly useful and interesting insight into the places you want to visit. SOme of these things have come and more are coming... As I was saying in another forum, we rolled out a bunch of stuff that you could see, then we had to go do a bunch more stuff under the hood. After about February 23, we'll start rolling our more things that you'll be able to see. Threaded comments on every page, new forums, new message center etc. etc. I wish I could give you everything right away, but the reality is that we do as much as we can. I encourage you to help us create the new stuff...we've already had a ton of input about forums which will be reflected...and comments and messaging... I also urge you not to simply reject something because it's different than you're used to.

"New and improved" is one of the great lies of life, up there with "the cheque is in the post" - remember Coca-Cola, anybody? Excuse my cyncism Q. How many VT members does it take to change a light bulb? A. The entire staff of HQ - everybody else sits around and says how much they preferred the old one. *grabs my hat and coat and leaves - in a hurry*

:) Glib and easy cynicism is well...easy. It makes you sound like you're a no nonsense guy, but really it's just a knee jerk grumpiness which seems in keeping with your style and presentation here. It's a well established fact in human factors and usability design that long time users of anything have a much harder time adapting to change than folks who are new. But not everyone feels like that. Most of the feedback was quite positive especially among people who were more familiar with a wide range of sites. You can't simulataneous ask for lots of changes and improvements and then be upset when things change. You mentioned Coca Cola. That was obviously not successful because people did not buy the new version. On VT however, the numbers are clearly in favor of the new layout of pages. I've heard this everytime there are new things on VT over the years. Everytime we changed anything on the site some people didn't like the changes. Then they get used to them, and then when changes come again, they complain that the site changed because the previously new site changed. :) It's always, the good old days. But like I said, you can't make improvements (that everyone here is asking for) and at the same time never change anything. That's the way it is. In Janet's case, there's also some things that seem unclear about how the pages were. Janet>I get to the front page, can't find a place to rate. A. There never was a place to rate from the front page Janet>And see no way to continue along their page to include places to stay restaurants... A. It's right under the photo excerpts of tips. Just like before. Difference is that before there were just boring links which where like a directory and very few people ever clicked them. Now the clicks into pages is up by alot. People see the photo, want to see more and then click on. Janet> ...especially when I am launched into 5 other people's pages because they also did tips on a particular city... A. I'm not even sure what this refers to... Newcomers find their way around without problem as compared to the old member pages they are much more engaged and the numbers bear this out. I do understand there's a barrier to change...

Q. I know how to find my way to the comments box, I just don't like the back-tracking needed to get there. What was wrong with having it available on all the various pages? A. On the old VT, you could only leave one comment per page per location. So if you were looking at Bill's excellent Things to Do for Paris, and noticed a great tip about Joe's Cafe. You'd write. "Oh I really enjoyed that place..it was excellent" And it got attached to the page with NO context and it was the only comment you could leave. And if you wanted to add another one, you'd just have to edit the previous one. Not good. We are now starting the coding of the new comments in which 1. You will be able to leave as many separate comments on any part of the page, overview, tips, video etc. as you like. 2. You'll be able to reply to a comment directly in the comment. They will be threaded. 3. Before there was no single page for each tip, so you couldn't actually comment on a single tip or photo or whatever...that will no longer be the case. 4. You'll be able to comment on each individual photo. So in having the comments the way they are now, they are laying the foundation for the new comments that are being coded right now. I do honestly wish I could do everyting much faster, but this is the reality. We've done a massive amount of work last year and will continue.

And yes, it's true that social networking and Facebook in particular has made things a bit different. Previously in VT Land back in the days, VT was full of people who were actually just social networking...there was no myspace, no facebook, no tumblr, reddit, delicious, no twitter etc. So some of the generalized social interaction that was on VT has some new outlets. VT is more focused on deep interaction about traveling, the world, real people etc. It's not just a surface gloss of social activity. "I'm at the super market..." "I'm eating breakfast." Sure some of that goes on and it's great. Fact is 1 in 8 people ON THE PLANET are on Facebook playing farmville, doing stuff etc. VT will continue to grow, innovate and do things that no one else is doing in travel, but it's true that some of the general social type stuff is also occurring in other places. That's life. It doesn't mean that people won't take part in VT, it just means that there are additional options.

In short: VT is progressing. I always say: In the good old days we wore wooden shoes. Look around you, almost nobody does now and we still enjoy walking. PJ

VT is progressing and I think anyone can see that. That said, we will continue to progress at a more rapid pace this year. We have been paying an overhead for legacy work that should have been done 5 years ago when we were being pulled in 12 directions on pet projects and non focused things. That's all changed. This year, we'll have in short term...new forums, new messaging, new commenting, new ability to follow things, new ways to contribute, mobile etc. I'm sure some of this will confuse some, I'm sure some of it will delight many many people, and I hope it's a giant success, but it won't be without some divergence of opinion. I know any time we change anything there's always some who love it and some who don't. This last change was by far the most positively received in the 12 years that I've been doing that. And the numbers bear it out. Give yourself a chance to discover new things on VT, and give yourself a chance to get past the, "it's different and thus I don't like it" barrier which is only human. It's expected, it's a known phenomenon. We try to change things only when they are an improvement. We may not all agree that everything is an improvement. But leave it as it is forever, is not an option.

Giampiero, sure that there has been a lot of improvement in VT and thank you for that. To be able to comment each tip will be another major improvement. Sure that oldtimers may find it difficult to adjust to the new VT. Sure that FB and others have siphoned a part of VT regular users. However, in the past when there had been other major changes in VT, even the oldtimers, after a while felt at ease in the new VT. Not this time! Why? IMHO, one major reason is that on a particular page, at first, tips do not show clearly under their headings (local customs, transportation, etc). I know, after a while, they show but nevertheless, it remains confusing and it is easy to begin to read a tip that you had already read a moment ago. And easy, too, to miss some tips on a page. I feel that if THAT could be fixed, 99% of the uneasiness would disappear. You outline that visitors stay longer on VT pages. Me too. In order not to get lost!

Hi Jean-Louis Q. However, in the past when there had been other major changes in VT, even the oldtimers, after a while felt at ease in the new VT. Not this time! Why? A. I'm not sure that's true that either people don't feel at ease or that they used to feel at ease after a while. You may not, but others certainly do. Like I said, the feedback that I've gotten even from old timers has been much more positive than at other times in the past. This is not to dismiss the things that we can improve. But I want to put it into context too. Q. IMHO, one major reason is that on a particular page, at first, tips do not show clearly under their headings (local customs, transportation, etc). A. The photos of tips and the subsequent categories underneath them are fairly easily to see and figure out. I do think we can do some improvement here, but once you've seen it, it's easy to find your way around. If you want Shopping or Warnings and dangers or whatever, they are clearly marked int he tips area. However, I do agree that we can always improve the navigation... Q. You outline that visitors stay longer on VT pages. Me too. In order not to get lost! A. Sorry, but this is overwhelmingly a huge improvement on the pages. If people get confused or don't understand what's up or don't find it engaging, then they simply leave. It does NOT happen that people are confused and they stay longer trying to figure it out. You have about 2.5 seconds to engage someone on an internet site. We are now doing atleast 50% better than before and depending on what specific metric you look at its even more than that. Again, you may have more difficulty because you're used to using the site in a particular way, but it's not accurate to assume that most people are experiencing that. In fact even the feedback from long time VTers has been way more positive than other changes in the past! Much more.