Miscellaneous Forum

Let me see if I understand all this ...

If you cross the North Korean border illegally,
you get 12 years hard labor..

If you cross the Iranian border illegally,
you are detained indefinitely.

If you cross the Afghan border, you get shot.

But, if you cross the U.S. border illegally,
you get a drivers license, social security card,
welfare, food stamps, and free health care?

Oh well sure. That makes sense.

LOL! Well, at least you know which borders not to cross! Actually, you can't get a drivers license if your illegal. Not that they don't, they do by lying and using fake SS#'s that they buy on the black market. They don't get welfare, they get Aid for Dependent Children because they have a child that was born in the US. Yes...we know. It's a huge problem and one that's supposed to be being addressed. "Supposed" is the key word. ~

I know a kiwi who crossed the US border illegally and got his sorry ass booted back down here across the Pacific. Where's the justice in that LOL ?

Yeah, I don't get that either Pam. Same thing happens to Canadians as well. I guess they're too homogenized in their looks and no one feels sorry for them. ~

If you cross the Australian border we invite you to Christmas Island for modern accommodation and all meals, at least for a year or two. Then we welcome you on the mainland as you have had it so tough. One of these days the logic of all that will become clear to me.

I love the Aussie northern border where you can find your way ashore illegally then they have strategically placed thousands of kilometers of croc infested area for the new entrants to test their metal LOL ;-)

If you cross the UK border ilegaly (in a lorry or under eurostar train) you get free housing furniture included, weekly DSS pay out,free NHS medical care childern support,free place in the local coledge, Family credit,clothing alowence and more..
Oh & I forgot and you can work cash in hand, while claiming that you have been tortured & you are now disabled,which by the way you will get income support for.
No wonder we have budget deficit, we suport refugees, which in truth most of them are economic migrants & the rest is used to prop up the faling banks!!!
Way to go, UK!!

the health care in the states is not free, you just aren't the person paying for it. i am. and it is not going to get better only worse ( BHO aside ).

The great prophet hundwalder is beholding in a vision that this thread will get deleted because of political controversy.

I doubt it...unless you report it to be of such. ~

Wal & Kiwi--don't forget all the demands to the government from the detainees that are well looked after on Christmas Island,they go on hunger strikes,complain about the treatment and say it is unfair to keep them detained--they got very upset about the last lot of boat people getting in first and being promised everything from the government and nearly caused a riot.They would never get this kind of welcome anywhere else in the world.It is beyond me.
I remember the rust bucket that landed on one of our suburban beaches a few years ago,it was a rainy morning and about 50 people drenched to their skin asked the newsagent which was open--for taxis.They didn't get very far as the police rounded them all up--but they were looked after and got top prioritory to social workers,social security etc.One of the local real estate agents had an ad in the paper two days later with a picture of the boat on the beach with the heading--PEOPLE WILL GO TO ANY LENGHTH TO LIVE HERE AT HOLLOWAYS BEACH--how clever was that.But it was us tax payers who paid for it to be cleaned up and us taxpayers who pay for their accomodation,food and benefits.
Kiwi--- getting lost up in the top end without a scratch is nothing but BS
but people believed them and felt sorry they had gone through such a bad experience--crazy isn't it??

Meant to say--desperate people will do desparate and very risky things.

"...They would never get this kind of welcome anywhere else in the world.It is beyond me."..unless they arrive here via boats into Miami or over the southern border of the US. Miami has become little Cuba. ~

Zan, I have never reported a thread or replies to one, and I don't intend to start now.

Sorry Z,I see what you mean--each country seems to have pin-pointed destinations
for those who are escaping whatever in their own countries.
-- I was basically looking at Australias situation and a lot needs to be done here and sounds like over there too.

As I said desperate people will take risks and do desperate things.

Hugssss Dorrise

Not accusing you Drew..no reason to be sorry Dorrise. ~

I doubt VT deletes stuff just because it is reported ;-)
Dorrise, I was hoping the crocs would get them first. Sounds like Aussie isn't the only country who "welcomes" these people. I don't envy any of those countries with this problem.
We see a bit of it here on VT when some African people sign up then start emailing us for "friendship" - they are looking for a ticket out of AFrica.

It seems to me that our present government (OZ) and a few notable others are trying to be everything to everyone. It takes a strong firm wise hand to govern successfully. Surely anyone taking illegal action to become a citizen of a perceived desirable country will have no problem taking illegal action once they are allowed permanent entry.

You forgot to mention that "IF YOU MAKE IT ACROSS" for if you did not know, more people have died crossing into US, than US Soldiers have died in Iraq and Afghanistan together. And more people die each year Alone crossing to US than ALL of the people that died trying to cross the Berlin Wall to freedom.

<<Surely anyone taking illegal action to become a citizen of a perceived desirable country will have no problem taking illegal action once they are allowed permanent entry.>>

this is often true, sadly.

but we are the world, we over populated, created tensions, ruined the soils, brought famines, all for oil, gas, comfort and Internet for some of us while millions of US starve. We ignored the signs, the problem grew.
A migrant escaping to a croc-infested zone to feed his starving children probably doesn't see things the way the guy across the croc pond does, from his house. Desperation is long to shake off.

things must be controlled to avoid total disorder but I'm for measures and laws to facilitate immigration and help newcomers settle.

"WASHINGTON - The number of US-citizen children born to illegal immigrants has dramatically increased over the past five years from 2.7 million in 2003 to 4 million in 2008, according to a study released yesterday.

The report by the nonpartisan, Washington-based Pew Hispanic Center also found that more than a third of such children were in poverty in 2007, compared with about 18 percent of those born to either legal immigrants or US-born parents. Similarly, 1 in 4 US-born children of unauthorized immigrants went without health insurance in 2008, compared with 14 percent of those born to legal immigrants and 8 percent born to US-born parents." http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2009/04/15/number_of_children_born_to_illegal_immigrants_jumps/.....~

Hi,and the same happen in Europe...
I have been in Kingdom of Saudi Arabia and if I would have worn a necklace with a cross I would have been in deep,deep trouble...Not to mention if I would have had a bible with me and someone would have had found...
USA:I have a 10year VISA for USA-I am even allowed to work there!To get this VISA is quite difficult and you get questioned,interviewed a lot(fingerprints etc...)No problem for me...
I find it only strange that there is a hughe procedure to come into the States but hardly nobody check you going out!!!!!!
Once you are in it it seems to me that you simply disappear...
Greetings

if you cross the U.S. border illegally:

You get to be exploited picking fruit so there´s cheap food for the rest of the country - where´s the difference to the N Korean hard labour?

You could get shot by the border patrol - even the East Germans only shot people trying to escape.

cottonwood, your point is what exactly? You would prefer to live in N Korea, Iran or Afghanistan?

Diplads, we are not forcing these people to cross our borders. If living conditions are so much better in their native countries, they are most welcome to stay there. What is with your anti-American crap anyway? I
seem to remember many "guest workers" in the UK meeting their maker because they were busy collecting seafood delicacies for y'all, as well as cargo boats full of suffocated corpses arriving on your shores. Unbelievable!

UK response to the Morecambe bay tragedy

a government agency set up to protect workers from exploitation in agriculture, horticulture, shellfish gathering and food processing and packaging.

Not saying it´s necessarily working, but gotta be worth a try.

Attitude of OP to US immigration issues seemed to be lets try the Iranian, Afghan, N Korean ways of dealing with things. Reduces what is a complex issue to soundbites with no substance. I was asking them to explain if that´s what they meant. If that´s anti-American, then I´m pleased to be guilty as charged. Anyway, I thought that you´d supported freedom of speech over there.

Maybe we Europeans should try the Afghan way with all the Americans who overstay Schengen visas. Yeah, that makes about as much sense.

"if you cross the U.S. border illegally:
You get to be exploited picking fruit so there´s cheap food for the rest of the country - where´s the difference to the N Korean hard labour?
You could get shot by the border patrol - even the East Germans only shot people trying to escape.
cottonwood, your point is what exactly? You would prefer to live in N Korea, Iran or Afghanistan?"

Let's not get all pissy here and please provide at least a little factual information with your claims.
Is it exploitation when the illegal desires this work? When the worker left his or her home to find this work that is not available in their homeland? Would you choose picking fruit in California over the hard labor issued in North Korea?
The border patrol does not shoot illegal immigrants for simply crossing the border. If they did, the US would not have a border crossing issue. They are able to use force to restrain these illegals when they do not comply to a stop order. They are able to use deadly force when they find their life or well-being threatened by these same illegals.

Good rebuttal :-)

I know border controls are needed and also that desperate people will do desperate things. I don't know the solution.
But I was totally shaken when I read The Devil's Highway, the story of the Yuma 14. Can't forget it.
Being exploited picking fruits in California is certainly easier than being in North Korea (though I know little of the latter) -- but I don't think I'd call it a choice. It shouldn't be THE choice at least. Illegal border crossings go on at risk of life, there's a huge problem and efforts should be made by all sides to alleviate it.
I know it costs taxpayers, it creates tensions etc. Still I can't shake the conviction that taxpayers benefit from exploitation and they don't lose their lives paying more income tax. I realise I'm very emotional over this.

Exploited picking fruit? They get paid! and paid more than they would at home. That's why they come here...better conditions. Plus most of the illegals end up working in restaurants with fake social security #'s making a decent wage. Or working in hotels, or fast food chains, or starting their own businesses. ~

"You forgot to mention that "IF YOU MAKE IT ACROSS" for if you did not know, more people have died crossing into US, than US Soldiers have died in Iraq and Afghanistan together. And more people die each year Alone crossing to US than ALL of the people that died trying to cross the Berlin Wall to freedom. "

So, that is more than 5300 deaths in what period of time? Is that on both sides of the border? The Berlin Wall death count is somewhere between 100 and 200 in the years between 1961 and 1989. I am willing to bet that there are more people crossing the Mexican/US border illegally each week (probably per day) than there were attemps in the 28 year history of the Wall. The estimated number of attempts to escape via the Wall is 5000. I assume that the extreme measures of the East German Border Patrol limited the atempts more-so than the measures taken by the US Border Patrol.
You might explain that most of the deaths are not attributable to the US border patrol. Many die while packed in a van or truck that is abandoned by the coyote in the desert. Many succumb to the heat and hyperthermia of the desert southwest. Some have existing medical conditions that is the reason that they are attempting such a dangerous act. Some die in vehicle accidents while attempting to cross. I would imagine that the 200-500 deaths per year works out to about the same mortality rate as any equal length stretch of interstate highway in any urban area of the US. While the above statement certainly pulls at the heart strings it's reality is not as harsh as the actual numbers.

Perhaps if the US Border Patrol were to take measures more like the East Germans the number of attempts would drop and so would the number of fatalities eventually.

Seriously, my thoughts are that we need a legal migrant worker agreement that would allow documented immigrants to come to the US to work legally and return after a period of time that is available to the same people who are having to risk so much just to be able to feed their families.