Luhansk Travel Forum

I am planning to Lugansk to meet a special lady. How safe is the city? Also I need information on a nice apartment that I can rent? Also, since I'm from the United States, I no longer need a letter of invitation for a private visa. If I list her name on the visa application, am I required to stay at her residence, or can I stay in rented apartment? Which is easier to do, tourist or private visa?

Thank you

First you should be aware that Lugansk is the 'scammer' capital of Ukraine if not the entire former soviet union. Don't know quite how it all came about, but this fact is well documented on many of the web sites concerned with East-West romance. This means that your special lady may, in fact, be 'Fat Yuri,' particularly when you are asked for money, as was the case for Gonads posted earlier.

Second, the process for tourist and private visa are not the same. You still need an invitation for tourist visa and you must stay in the accommodations listed there which will be relatively expensive hotels. No invitation needed for private visa but you must list the name and address of a person living in Ukraine. After that, the general experience (including mine) is that no one ever checks whether you actually stay with that person or at that address. So the answer is that the private visa is the only way to go.

Third, although you didn't ask, you would be a fool to make this trip having contact with only one lady. These ladies are quite capricious, and it has been reported many times that they will reject you when they see you getting off the plane, train, etc. This even after months of correspondence, phone calls, etc. So get on the ball and get correspondence going with 10 or more ladies in the city you are planning to visit.

2 Amer22 :

I would say the fool is the person who thinks of finding a wife as a shopping.

bravo Valera!

I think it is better than to go to Luhansk to contact VT-member rikkilixxx , check her website!

too late Lothar, it's gone :)

What a pity, but I saved her page ;-))

She still exists! Please check the following website!

http://www.virtualtourist.com/m/69a68/

Pika and Inga: It seems to me that Amer gave very good practical advice. Can you please advise where this is foolish advice? What would you say to original poster if he in fact is abandoned by the lady he goes to see after a few minutes? He will be in strange place with no contacts. He will probably have spent his entire vacation money and used up his entire vacation time for the year on a wasted trip. What is wrong with having several people to meet in a particualar city?

4 2Travel2:

> Pika and Inga: It seems to me that Amer gave very good practical advice.
> Can you please advise where this is foolish advice? What would you say
> to original poster if he in fact is abandoned by the lady he goes to see
> after a few minutes?

Maybe I am a romantic, but I believe in true love, so I am sure that
it's not a real lady who abandoned a man in a few minutes.
In fact, I'm glad for that man, since he did not waste his time with
such "lady".

> He will be in strange place with no contacts. He will probably have
> spent his entire vacation money and used up his entire vacation time for
> the year on a wasted trip.

As for "He will be in strange place with no contacts.":
If a man crosses the ocean for a love, such man can't be lost. I believe
that if such man is not afraid of meeting a girl from another country,
another culture, and live with her all his life, he will not afraid of
"be in strange place".
What do you mean "with no contacts" ?? Is Lugansk a desert?

> What is wrong with having several people to
> meet in a particualar city?

Nothing.
It depends on what you are looking for.

Lothar, you must be luckier than me. I got "request error"
Although I don't really worry about it.

Valera, Lugansk is an isolated island. Didn't you know?

4 2Travel2:

If you have no contacts, come to Dnipropetrovsk, at least we could arrange a small beer party or whatever. Do you like beer ? :)

Thank you everyone for your advice. I know that Lugansk has many scammers and am cautious about going to visit this woman. I have not set any firm dates. Does anyone know what dating agencies are honest? Perhaps I should explore these agencies and travel to meet several instead of just one woman.

Thank you for all of your advice. It is wise to be safe than sorry, especially in a land where one can not speak or read their language.

Chris

> A: Thank you everyone for your advice. I know that Lugansk has many
> scammers and am cautious about going to visit this woman. I have not set
> any firm dates. Does anyone know what dating agencies are honest?
> Perhaps I should explore these agencies and travel to meet several
> instead of just one woman.

Hi Chris,
Maybe somebody who came in UA before could share his experience about the honesty of dating agencies.

By the way, from summer this year there were plenty of "dating" questions about Lugansk from different people - check the forum. May be these people could tell you something....

Use the usual precautions: discuss with agency what you are paying for before you come to country, and so on.

As for me - two years ago a friend of mine was working for dating agency as an interpreter (here, in Dnipropetrovsk), and that summer a man came from Switz. to meet a girl. We even had a nice trip on a yacht by the river. I believe this dating agency is honest. As for other - who knows.

Anyway, I wish you good luck.
Valeriy.

To original poster. First, if you haven't already done so, you should start reading some of the websites that are dedicated to East/west romance. A very good website is at www.rwguide.com

Second, you also need some very specific info and advice. A very good place to start is www.firstdream.com A good feature at that site is a long list of known scammers. But, of course, this list is probably only one percent of the total. The man who owns this site and agency is Jack Bragg. He is very very knowlegable about the entire process and it would be worth your while to contact him directly for some advice. I know that he looked for a long time to find an agency in Lugansk that was honest so that he could form an affiliation with them as he has for several other cities. The last I knew, he was not able to find one single honest agency in Lugansk, but maybe things have changed now.

Also, as you have noted from some other respondents, this entire process of 'looking for a mate' is very controversial. The advice that you get from males and females typically are about 180 degrees out of sync. Women, of course, generally have this romantic bent that doesn't ever go away (I recently have noted it with an 82 year old female relative). Since they usually play the passive role and expend no money, they think nothing of advising the men to throw all caution to the wind, jump on the plane and travel to the end of the earth for a meeting with only one gal.

Men are usually a little more level headed about this, but our friend who posted above shows that is not always the case.

Thank you all for your advice. You are right that there are 2 different views between men and women. I have been writing this women for about 4 months now. She is not part of any agency, and has never asked for any money. Her letters are not filled with all the scammer language such as falling in love after 3 letters and such. She has advised me not go through agencies to find apartments and to not send her flowers as according to her it is a big rip off. She told me if I choose to visit, she can find several apartment to choose from for a decent price, and I would not have to pay for apartment until I came there and inspected it. Plus she told me that she would meet me in Kiev via train and we could ride back together on train. She has given me her address and it seems to be legitimate. I sent her a card without her knowing it was coming and she described exactly what was on the card. Just from her demeanor in her letters and not asking for money, makes me think she is legit. What do you all think?

Well, you are certainly off to a better start with this gal than was Gonads with his. I would say that you have found a potential mate with a lot of desireable characteristics.

First, it sounds great that she has offered to find the deals on apartments; however, there is a potential big pitfall here for you. Your accommodations in the apt will be tied through this gal. Suppose you and she do not hit it off? In one scenario, she continues to be a good gal and wishes you the very best. In the other scenario, she goes to the owner of apt and reads him the riot act concerning you. In short, she gets you thrown out of the apt with no refund, no place to stay etc. It has happened to several guys.

Second, if you play it smart and plan to meet several ladies on the trip, then having the apt contact through this first gal will also prove to be a disaster. The owner and neighbors will report to her the coming and going of other ladies; she is likely to have a second key that she uses to show up unannounced, etc. It has happened to several guys.

Third, the best of scammers never ask you for money and they are very good actresses. They rely on the fact that most westerners are much more generous than they find with locals. So all they have to do is just show you their poor living conditions, drop a few hints about not having this or that, and you will start to offer to solve all her problems. This has happened to many, many, many guys.

Believe it or not, I am a very big optimist. But, I always follow the Boy Scout motto I learned as a young boy. "Be prepared." In this case, it means READ, READ, READ, think of the various pitfalls, plan ahead as much as possible, have as many alternatives as possible, have back up plans, etc., etc., etc. By following these ideas, I always feel very confident in my world travels, I rarely encounter situations that I have not already thought through and have a plan to cover . . . . . and I have a great time overall.

2 Amer22 : I can't help: it looks like a paranoia. It must be not easy to live thinking what BAD can happen next second.....
I wish you good luck, Chris!

Thanks again to all. I will admit she does have good qualities and to my knowledge has been honest with me. There is not a huge age difference either. I am trying to be as cautious as I can be. That is why I have been finding sites such as this to keep me aware of all possibilities. If I choose to visit her, I would not see any other women, as that would be unfair to her because she really hasn't been leading me on.
She is even sending me a letter of invitation for a private visa, even though one in not required. She didn't seemed too worried when I asked if I could put her name and address on visa. As a matter of fact she is going to send the letter in both Russian and English. I can't imagine a scammer working so hard for 4 months already, and it may be another 4 months before I visit. But then again, one must be prepared. Life requires risk, and sometimes the best things happen when you take the risk, but also must be done without wearing blinders.

Pika:

I wish you would work on improving your reading comprehension skills. I realize that English is not your first language, and I applaud your efforts and willingness to communicate in English.

However, if you would carefully reread the last paragraph of my message again, you would see that I clearly state that I have a great time on my international travels. So your comment that "It must be not easy to live . . . . . ." completely ignores and/or misrepresents my situation.

I am a very logical and systematic person, and I will gladly match up my past, currrent, and future happiness against yours any time.

I have one more question. If I use a private visa, instead of tourist visa, will I have to register when I arrive in Ukraine? I do not need a letter of invitation since I'm from the US, but I am not clear on the process when I arrive in Ukraine.

Thanks for your help.

As of several months ago, registration of visa is no longer required for US visitors to Ukraine, except if you stay longer than 3 months or so.

You should get some of these answers from the horse's mouth . . . . go to the www site for Ukraine Embassy in Wash, DC. The site is pretty good and covers most questons.

You are right. I checked the embassy site, and I do not have to register if I am there less than 3 months.

Thanks

I have asked this gal about marriage agencies and scams they are known for. She was quite honest and said she did join one several months ago, but never got any mail. She became suspicious, because she thought that they were taking her mail and writing back to the unsuspecting men, and they were probably trying to get money out of them. I give her credit for answering all of my questions. She isn't offended by all the questions. She also asks me a lot of questions too, to see if I'm legit too. I gave her my address, and she wanted me to take picture of my house to prove that the house numbers matched my address.

Hey Amer..hope things are well.

You seem to be pretty straight up and well versed in the east/west romance scam antics, so I was wondering if this was a result of a personal experience or one that may have happened to someone you know.

I ask because the whole scenario those agencies have built up can be pretty darn convincing. How did you get an 'up' on the antics?

Just curious...

Hi Matjik:

The scams have happened to thousands of guys. I have avoided being scammed by reading about the experience of others and careful planning. Read the above message in this thread that I posted about going to www.rwguide.com and www.firstdream.com

These are only two of hundreds of sites you can use to get info. Other good sites are www.planet-love.com and Russian Womens List (this is one of the best sites but quite difficult to get signed up to).

But don't get discouraged by all the problems that are discussed. The problems can be avoided by a careful and systematic approach. I have been to FSU (former soviet union) 5 times in last 3 years spending a total of about 6 months there and have yet to have a very bad experience.

One of main things to get through your head is that much of what you read on the agency sites about these ladies is false. They are not anxious to date guys 20 years older than themselves and they are not going to marry the first guy who asks (mostly).

Another thing is that the women in Eastern Europe are not more beautiful (on average) than the women in any other area of the world (on average.) The big difference is that you see mostly very nice looking women on the Eastern Europe agency sites and you see mostly not very nice looking women on sites used by American women. This is because the very good looking American women are mostly well educated, have high paying jobs, and are not at all looking to better themselves by way of marrying a guy. They have wealthy guys coming out their ears. It is mostly the really loser AW who place themselves on the dating sites.

In EE, the situation is completely reversed. The agencies will not take as clients and post pictures of the average looking and ugly women. They will only post pictures of the above average looking women. Because of the poor economic conditions, the well educated and beautiful EE gals are looking for men to help provide some financial stability to their (and their family's)situation.

So, by looking at the dating sites, it appears that the women in EE are better looking than western women, but this is completely false on average.

The biggest reasons to go to FSU to look for a female partner is simply availability. By use of the various web based matchmaking sites, you can line up dates with 30 different EE women who meet many of your criteria for 30 consecutive days, if you wish. In the west, it would take you three years to find and date 30 women who meet your criteria.

The reasons for this disparity are many, but mostly they are related to economic situations. The most choice women in the west can support themselves in great style and they have thousands of men chasing them who have good, high paying careers.

The most choice women in EE are faced with poor paying jobs and many of the men their age cannot afford to date them let alone support them. Many of the EE men also come with birth defects that cause cigarettes to permanently attach to their lips and vodka bottles to permanently attach to their hands.

The average EE man (and I get all of this info from the EE women who I have dated) is sullen of temperament, physically abusive (after marriage), and knows (and cares) little about providing sexual pleasure to the women.

Finally, Matjik, I can relate to you that I graduated from USC.

Hi Amer,

You are a load of info...Great sense of humor as well, no trick there since you're from Troy...

Love to hate you guys but congratulations are in order. This Bruin Blue is rooting for the maroon and gold of troy!

Matt ( Matjik was a name dubbed me when I was last I Slovakia. It's a term of endearment, believe it or not )

many thanks for the info...