Miscellaneous Forum

I'm always on my daughter's case about using good table manners. (I think she's the only kid in America who puts a napkin on her lap at McDonald's.) And although she generally thinks I'm a pain, I think when she's older she'll appreciate it. Occasionally I get comments from friends, or others, that I'm too strict about it with her, or that in general table manners aren't that important anyway, so why put so much energy into it? But to me, manners are very, very important. (I'll never forget a date I went on once with this guy I thought was the bee's knees until he started eating salad with his hands and licking his fingers . . .) So how important are table manners, or other manners, to you? Do you think they're important?

To me they are very important. Good manners are all about consideration for others.

That's very true!

Definitely! I agree, manners are important.

William of Wykeham summed it up well - Manners maketh the man.

When it comes to table manners, its about the respect for the people around the table and for oneself - you don't want tomato sauce down the front of your shirt after lunch when you have an important business meeting - simples!

Extremely important. Socio-economic distinctions/judgements are made by table manners. This is where is shows up and is probably the easiest to notice.

Continue to be firm in this matter and also let her know to notice the table manners of the young men she dates.

It may not matter to her now. However, if she wants to raise a family it will be just a little easier if her husband is on the same page on the table manner issue. Also after years of marriage, if there is a deficiency in the table manner issue, it will show up every day of your life. While it may be the big things that start divorce proceedings (infidelity, money, abuse), it is the little day to day irritating habits that that seal a divorce.

Oh, yes they are important. But- I am from the South and we are still taught to say ma'am and sir! (reference to an earlier thread :) One of my nephews (in his late 20's) was once told he got a promotion because all other things being equal, he had the best manners and would be the best representative for the company. This resulted in a yearly increase of over 40K in salary for him. He immediately called his parents and adults in our family to tell us the good news and to thank us for emphasizing ettiquette and good manners in his youth.

Good manners are the grease that ease the wheels in sticky social situations. Why else do corporations, universities and the military now teach seminats on appropiate table manners if you want to advance?

They are definitely important. If she ever has to do a job interview or client meeting with food involved, table manners could be a key differentiating factor.

Also, if she has bad table manners and passes them on to her kids, your problem will have multiplied!

i was born and frew up in denmark where most people donīt put much importance in to manners, but 21 years of going around the world has taught me how important it is to have some basic manners.

and also the importance of learning the basic manners and dos and dosnīt in the countries you visit as that makes your stay a lot more comfortable when people can see that you respect them.

i have even taught myself to give a polite answer when the walmart guy says "hello sir how are you doing today" for the 576th time of the day :O)

I think all and any rule of behavior is important to some extent.

Living in a place were a large part of the population is from other countries and other cultures, I have learned not to put too great an emphasis on what is understood by the term, "Common Courtesy."

I've grown up here with people who, I think, have never been aware of certain aspects considered as "Table Mannars." It could even be that the table manners they were taught in their own country is quite different from those of ours.

Actually, I think my own training in this area was a bit lacking, though there were certain things impressed upon me as a child at the table, not nearly as comprehensive as I've seen others insist upon.

Having said all this, I would also say that you are doing your daughter a great service by insisting she behave at the table, in a way that is acceptable to you, because this training does show as they grow-up.

Your friends, who think you are too strict on this issue, may be like me, never well trained and therefore consider it not quite so important.

A side perk of standing your ground with your friends might be that they learn a thing or two themselves, through your example.

A good thing. No?

You're right. It's important.

I have a struggle with my 15 y-o about it. He thinks I'm just a grumpy old so and so (true, but that's not the issue).

The example I give him is exactly the one you used - what happens when he eats with a girl he likes (maybe at her parents' place) and she discovers he's like a pig in a trough.

Makes no difference, but at least he's been told.

Those who are degrading you for making her practice manners are feeling guilty. They know they are wrong and by you pushing your child it makes their guilt come to the surface. So they don't want you to do your job, so they don't feel guilty.

Yes manners are important, they give off signals about how much consideration and self respect we have.

Swearing and ranting in coarse slang in the miscellenous forum is an internet "virtual" form of poor table / restaurant manners, I suppose. It's thug behaviour. A sign of ignorance, lack of education.

Two "non virtual" table manners I have an irrational freak out abhorrence with are...

1. Holding a knife like a pen

2. Placing a purse / wallet / keys / phone on a table that has a tablecloth.

Daft, irrational, the both... but they do my head in.

Manners help to make society bearable.

Not the 'you must always use this bit of cutlery' type of manners but basic, respectful courtesy-to-others manners. It is truly foul to sit with people who eat with their mouths open, imo. And grabbing/reaching across the table is both inconsiderate and rude.

But many parents are not teaching children even those basic manners any more. Sadly.

Good on you for doing that. If more Mums and Dads would act like adults, make adult decisions and set rules/limits for children I would not have so many 'little darlings' inflicted upon me at work.

Also manners convey respect to others. You can celebrate and take pride in in observing etiquette and proper manners. No one can take pride in being slovenly.

Rounded shoulders and head down to the bowl / platers, rather than sitting up straight spoon / fork up to the mouthers. Aaaaaagggghhhh !

Slurpers. Aaaagggggh!

Those that suck in their tea or coffee with air, rather than tip the cup and drink it. Aaaaaaaghhh.

Would you like a tea? Would you like a coffee? Aaaaaaaaaaaggggh.
Would you like a cup of tea? Would you like a cup of coffee? Phew.

Oh, yes, manners are important. I would throw in teaching that not everyone eats the same amount at meals, so don't ask "is that all you're going to eat?" or "wow, that's healthy" (said sarcastically). As long as you enjoy pleasant conversation (as long as you aren't chewing at the same time!) and both parties are happy with what they had, what exactly the other person has shouldn't matter.

Very important.

Nothing is a bigger turn off then someone with bad manners, especially an adult with bad manners.

I agree about the importance of good manners, whether at the table or elsewhere and I like the fact that my grandchildren say sir and ma'am and don't think there is anything the least bit sexist about the terms. I did have to laugh at you Em - "the bees knees"!? You are not old enough to remember that old one.

I agree with the comments above. Having worked in US high schools for the past 20 years I am still taken off guard sometimes by the overt rudeness of many (not the majority) of youths who simply don't know or care that their actions and words are not appropriate in public. I could write a book about these experiences, but it would be to depressing. It is very difficult to uphold standards of common decorum in a large, public setting when teenagers haven't been raised with them at home.

By the way, there is an entertaining and informative column by "Miss Manners" in our Sunday paper. Anybody else enjoy reading her. So much of it is common sense.

Yes, I am an advocate of good manners as well. I always approach the topic in a personal way, like 'How would you like it if someone sat opposite you and ate with their mouth open and made loud chomping noises whilst dribbling food down the front of them?'. Exaggerated I know...but the point is made very clear.
Good manners to me are more important than school grades. The thing I look for in the school report is good behaviour. And I am the first to compliment a young person when they remember their 'please' & 'thank you' :o)

I love Miss Manners! I love advice columns in general -- I think they're a good reminder that your life isn't really that bad!

Good manners seem to be in style again - not that they should ever gone out. Many large companies here have initiated "polishing" courses for future executives and sales people to prepare the uninitiated for business situations of many kinds - from introductions to formal dinners.

My mother was a stickler for manners and I must say that it did give me a warm, fuzzy feeling when my friend's parents reported to her that I was a welcome guest in their homes because I knew how to behave. Your daughter will be grateful someday!

I will mention that eating "continentally" is not a custom in much of the US so is not generally considered poor manners as it may be in other parts of the world. My husband and I are trying to adopt it (one of those polishing-course things) but find it slow going - what on earth do you do with peas? Whatever, I agree that the pleasantness of your dinner companions is really more important and find adults who correct other adults at table another form of bad manners?

'Continentally'? You mean with knife and fork in either hand all the time?

If so, to be absolutely correct peas should be mushed up onto the back of the fork with one's knife.

But the more plebeian amongst us just push them onto the upturned fork and use it as a spoon. :-)

Em, check this out and give to Little Miss M.

Tell her to read it. Make a committment to her to bug her less and less if she gives it her best effort to improve.

I commend you for being a stickler on the Table Arts! ; 0

My mom, an old Bostonian, was both Amy Vanderbilt and Emily Post. We had it pretty tough!

http://www.askandyaboutclothes.com/Lifestyle/proper_table_manners.htm

As said above, though I appreciate those who have good manners at the table, I am not a "stickler" about it most of the time. The two things that really grate on my senses are, as mentioned, eating with the mouth open and confronting anyone at the table or even in any social gathering, for some preceived fault or flaw.

Having said that, I'll tell you that one evening at the dinner table with my brother and two sons, I heard, while I was cutting off a piece of meat, the chomping and smacking of "chewing with mouth open."

Instantly I said in an obviously irratated voice, "Will you please eat with your mouth closed?

Just as I looked up to see which son it had been, my brother said, "Oh! Sorry."

LOL! I broke my own "no criticism rule." Oh well, we can't all be perfect.

>>>But the more plebeian amongst us just push them onto the upturned fork and use it as a spoon. :-)

Thanks for this!

However, I'm not very good at the "mashed food against the back of the fork" yet, so, I'd say, it would be better manners not to serve peas with guests in the house.

If you serve the peas with mashed potatoes it makes it very easy indeed. :-)

>>>If you serve the peas with mashed potatoes it makes it very easy indeed. :-)

Great idea!

However, I don't like to mix foods in the same bite, so, I'd still be at a disadvantage.

I'll just have to serve peas as a soup or when I'm alone. LOL!

I eat my peas with honey.
I've done so all my life.
It makes the peas taste funny
but it keeps them on the knife.

LOL!!!

Very funny!

Thanks Jane, for the first big laugh of my day!!

Would more likely be able to mix peas with mashed potatoes than with honey, so better I just avoid peas in public from now on.

Still laughing,
Linda

LOL, Leics! Yes, by continentally, I meant with fork and knife either hand, and fork turned downwards instead of up like a spoon - not common in many parts of the US. And I heard about smashing the peas against the fork but the blasted things just won't stay put. And I LOVE peas! Oh well, maybe I'll have to be plebian too and continue to use my fork like a spoon when having peas.

Is the problem with the fork why mushy peas are so common in England?

Well, here's the way I think about it - people look at the "complete package".

Time is spent fixing hair, buying good clothes, getting a "new" look, making sure we walk well in heels, keeping trim. Table manners can make or break all this previous work. The minute you see someone grabbing their food before anyone else's arrives at the table, and having poor table manners, something inside goes "Oh ... " - and all the hair, smile, clothing etc. starts looking less attractive.

Couple this with the effect it will have when she has a nice job and is looking at a promotion and has that dinner with her work group - and manners become a no brainer that take very little effort to get right.