Madrid Travel Forum

We are a group of 6 friends (Age: 26-29) visiting, or dashing actually, Europe in June 2009. Below is our near-to-final itinerary for expert opinion:

Day 1 (Monday, June 8): Arrival at Rome Fiumicino at 18:30; Checking in at Hostel Pop-Inn at around 22:00 for two nights.

Day 2 (Tuesday, June 9): Walking tour to Colosseum, Pantheon, Forum, Trevi Fountain, and Spanish Steps in the first half. Then go for window shopping at any good mall (please recommend) and visit to Ferrari Store (please advise).

Day 3 (Wednesday, June 10): Visiting Vatican City and Museum in the first half through public transport (Thanks to VT, I understand that Wednesday is the recommended day to visit Vatican). Leave for Florence in the second half through Regional Train and checking in at Locanda Rocco for two nights.

Day 4 (Thursday, June 11): Half day trip to Pisa from Florence and back through Regional Train. Visit one of the museums and wandering around in the other half.

Day 5 (Friday, June 12): Leave for Venice in the first half through Regional Train. Spend evening and night at Venice.

Day 6 (Saturday, June 13): Leave for Bari in the morning through Adriatica. Take 20:00 superfast ferry to Patras.

Day 7 (Sunday, June 14): Reach Patras at Noon. Leave for Athens and check-in at a reasonable hostel for two nights. Visit National Archeological Museum.

Day 8 (Monday, June 15): Day trip to a nearby beach.

Day 9 (Tuesday, June 16): Visit Acropolis and other sites in the first half. Leave for Barcelona in the second half through low-cost airline (clickair: pre-booked). Over night stay at Barcelona.

Day 10 (Wednesday, June 17): Spend first half in Barcelona and leave for Granada in the second half. Check-in at a reasonable hostel for two nights.

Day 11 (Thursday, June 18): Visit Alhambra and explore Granada.

Day 12 (Friday, June 19): Leave for Cordoba early in the morning and visit Mazquita. Leave for Madrid in the evening. Check-in at a reasonable hostel for two nights.

Day 13 (Saturday, June 20): Explore Madrid.

Day 14 (Sunday, June 21): Leave for the next destination/ back home in the second half.

Question # 1: Reference to Day 1 above, what is the cheapest mode of transportation from Fiumicino to Termini and what time we would be able to reach our hostel (by foot from Termini) considering the international arrival at Fiumicino at 18:30 and with luggage?

Question # 2: Reference to Day 2; I understand that there is a Combo Ticket for Colosseum, Pantheon, and Forum in 12 Euros. Does this also cover Trevi Fountain and Spanish Steps?

Question # 3: Reference to Day 3, how feasible is to have a motorbike tour to Vatican from Termini and back?

Question # 4: Reference to Day 4, please advice which half to allocate to Florence and which half to Pisa?

Question # 5: Reference to Day 5, can we wander around Venice for the whole night? What are the pros and cons?

Question # 6: Reference to Day 6 and 7, I understand\ that there are some areas not recommended for overnight stay because of security and Red Light thing. Then, which other areas provide for cheap and safer accommodation?

Besides specific questions, please feel free to share your experience and other useful tips.

Reference to day #1: the cheapest (and best) mode of transportation from Fiumicino to Termini is to take the train. No doubt.
Reference to day #2: You do not have to pay to see the Trevi Fountain or Spanish Steps. You can just walk there on your on. There is no admission.
Reference to day #3: I'd stay off of a motorbike in Rome. You'll know what I mean when you see the traffic and the drivers.
Reference to day #5: Yes, you can wander around Venice but be prepared to get lost which turns out to be fun. Canals always seem to get in your way.

I'm just responding on the Rome piece: As far as I know, there aren't any "malls" in the Central Storico, and what you have planned for your first 1/2 day will likely take you much longer than a morning. As a day and 1/2 is very little time to see Rome, I'd skip the shopping piece altogether.

The combo ticket you refer to covers Forum, Colosseum and Palatine Hill. Trevi and the Spanish Steps are free and are nothing more than walk-bys. Do NOT go to the Colosseum first - buy the ticket at the Forum or Palatine Hill, where the ticket lines are shorter. Replace shopping with stops at the the Pantheon, Piazza del Popolo (as it's not far from the Spanish Steps) and some of the more famous churches (ask if you want to know which those are). Get over for a walk through Trastevere, if you can. Maybe take the elevator up to the top of the Vittorio Emannuel Monument for a breathtaking view of the city. As you'll have a lot of daylight in June, you can easily get in a lot of walking around the more picturesque areas. You can window-shop along the way.

I believe there's an express train from the airport to Termini, and that it's the cheapest way to go but will defer to other VT'ers on that.

I'd also skip the Vatican Museum as again, unless you've prebooked a tour, lines are very, very long. The museum has 4 miles of treasures and so takes considerable time to see. Focus on St. Peter's as you'll still have a wait but probably not as long, and there's a lot there to see.

Based on recent tips from other travelers, you might want to skip Pisa and just spend your day in Florence. I hear it's a beautiful city and one worth not rushing through?

One more note: do your window shopping on Via dei Condotti, near the Spanish Steps. There's a lot of designers shops there (Armani, Prada, Versace, Dolce and Gabbana, Gucci, etc). Ferrari is on Via del Corso, which is a another good thoroughfare for heading north from, say, the Vittorio Emmanuel to Piazza del Popolo. Maybe take that one north to the Piazza, then around to the Spanish Steps and then window-shop your way around Via dei Condotti.

I don't know if this is the expert opinion you want, but you guys are nuts. You are wasting huge amounts of time sitting on buses or trains instead of enjoying the areas you want to see. YOu should need an entire day to explore the Colosseum, Forum and Palintine Hill, you might be able to get over the Pantheon before it closes. The Spanish Steps and Trevi Fountain are close by and both of those are enjoyable in the evening. You can even pop over to PIazza Navona for its fountains in the evening. You won't have time to do both the Vatican Museum and St. Peters and then head over to Termini station for the train to Florence. Unless you plan on arriving after all the museums, churches, etc. are closed. I would spend the day in Florence (if you want to see David and the Uffizi you need to make reservations). You may want to take an evening train for the short visit to Pisa. I would cut out Greece completely. Even Bari is out of the way. I opine more later.... Karl

Well gosh, I was sort of thinking the same as Karl - with so short a time in so many places, you really won't get to experience any of them much at all. Any chance you could cut your itinerary down to a more manageable size so you aren't spending so much time in transit?

Thank you all for your responses and suggestions. I would need more of them in order to refine my itinerary.

Before asking more questions, below are some recognitions and clarifications:

I understand that all these places require atleast days if not weeks each in their own right. But since this is our first Euro Trip of this kind, we are positive to enjoy every bit of it including our transit journeys.

Transfer from Fiumicino to Termini: I understand from other forums that train is the most convenient but not the cheapest mode. However, I would prefer to take the direct train keeping in view the preceding long international journey.

Reference to Day 2: Thanks MarcSacco and goodfish for your responses. I now understand that the Combo ticket is for three mentioned sites and other sites are actually walk-bys. In the meantime one can also enjoy window shopping as there are no malls per say in Rome. I still need to finalize my Day 2 itinerary and would be grateful if someone can provide me with a walking schedule of the city, I specially request goodfish to help in this regard and specially suggest some good churches. We would enjoy walking, and we can walk something like 10-12 miles, we are on a tight budget, nonetheless, we are more than willing to buy the Combo ticket and other budget tickets and are ready to take one or two bus/metro/train rides. Although we don’t want to skip lunch, however, we can live with easy take away food.

Reference to Day 3 (Vatican): Unfortunately, we have only half a day available for Vatican and I have a feeling that we would not do justice with the Museum. Is it possible to have a walking tour of Vatican at our own just to see the enclave and Vatican itself from outside in 4-5 hours?

Now, @ Karl’s (Roadguill): I am taking your (and others) cautions very seriously. I am trying to make my itinerary as reasonable (or less unreasonable) as possible with the support of you guys.

OK, I'll try and map something out (stay tuned). As far as the "Vatican", I'm unsure what you mean by the "enclave" - all that's available in Vatican city for tourists to see is St. Peter's, the gardens (which we didn't do) and the museum. Since you've elected to skip the museum (good decision based on little time), and I don't have info on the gardens, that leaves St. Peter's. It's free (except for the elevator to the dome and the Treasury, which we also didn't do) and we spent a good half day there. You don't really need a tour (nice on a tight budget) as there's good online info available. I included a link on my St. Peter's tip for a site you can print out good info from to take with you.

Tourist can also visit the Necropolis (Scavi tour) but you would have needed to book that far in advance so not an option. And just so you know, Wed IS the day the Pope gives audiences but that would have required advance tickets too unless he just happens to make an appearance in the public piazza.

One question: you say your group is staying in a hostel and you only have a half day for the Vatican? You will be unable to bring your luggage with you when you visit St. Peter's so your time may be even shorter if you must go back to the hostel to retrieve your backpacks, etc. before catching your train.

Sorry - my last post wasn't very clear. While the Pope does make his summer Wed. general audiences in the piazza, you are still required to have a ticket to attend. And there is a backpack check at St. Peter's Basilica but I'm not sure about larger luggage. At St. Peter's, as well as any other church in Rome, be sure to wear mandatory proper attire (no shorts, tank tops or t-shirts with violent or objectionable images) - knees and shoulders must be covered, both men and women.

well, for my 2cents; I stopped reading after the 4th day, as I couldn't stomach it! For what reason would you try to do all this in such a short time? and as already said, 2/3 of your time will be in transport and therefore you are relying on all those modes to be on time and that is if YOU are on time......sounds like a paper exercise to me rather than a trip.

Since you are young; certainly you will have future opportunities to get to do other trips??

After you get back to Spain, you will hit Barcelona late in the evening. Fortunately, Barcelona is a late night, happening place. You may find some late night places here on VT, but there are other sites that can provide some better venues. Since you only have a limited time in the morning, I suggest you limit your exploration to the Gaudi buildings, i.e. Casa Milla, a walk up and down the Rambla and maybe the Bari Gotic area near the gothic cathedral. The Familia Sagrada is a sight worth while to be seen, but you may not have time if you want to head to Granada later that day. Since you want to see the Alhambra, be sure to reserve ahead of time. Let me know if you need the link. It assigns random times to get into the Nazrid Palace so you may have to try it a few times until you get a time of around 10:30. That gives you time to get to the entrance by 9:30 and then walk through the grounds to the Palace. You also need to allow time for the fortress and the Generlife gardens. Give yourself some time in Cordoba. In addition to the Mezquita, the Alcazar is cool as well as the ancient roman era museum, and across the river there are other items to check out. I would not worry about the redlight areas in most of the cities. As long as you are with someone you should be fine. I was surprised at the number of prostitutes in Madrid. There seemed to be more just North of Gran Via along with some shady areas where there was some drug dealing. As far as security, make sure your important papers/passports/serious money are under your clothes. The pickpockets are so quick at going through pockets. And don't let any stranger get too friendly with you. Supposedly Granada has some shady areas, but I did not notice any when I was there last year. Make sure the hostels you stay at have a locked security trunk for your stuff. Karl

Thanks a ton everybody for your responses.

I am much more informed now, specially about the prospects of protistution in Bari and on the ferry, so much so that I have shelved Venice-Bari-Patras-Athens marathon and instead booked a direct flight from Venice to Athens which will allow us two clear daya in Athens along with two half days. Further, I am also thinking of postponing Barcelona (along with Milan) for the next trip and concentrate more on Andlucia.

I will post more refined itinerary on Rome and Madrid Forums soon for your comments.

Very good choice! I think you'll have a much more enjoyable trip with more time to sightsee. I'll be looking for your new itinerary and will try and help you further with Rome.

I would avoid Cordoba and stay more time in Barcelona and Granada (don´t forget to buy tickets for the alhambra in advance otherwise you´ll miss it), not because Cordoba is not nice but just to extend the other cities that I like more

26-29 years... you have plenty of time to visit 100 times again, don´t try to see so many places because you will not see anything...

Be careful, when you come back from Europe your friends will want to hear all about Big Ben, the Eiffel Tower, the Berlin Wall and er...never mind LOL

With some trimming, what you are proposing is fine. Jam-packed, but fine. There will be other trips to see more things properly later on. For a first trip to Europe you have picked a lot of the highlights and are sticking to a Mediterranean theme.

Ask yourselves why you want to go to some of these places and whether the time and effort is worth it. I know everyone wants to see Pisa, but after you spend 2 minutes looking at the tower and saying to yourselves 'yes, it leans' there really isn't that much to keep you occupied.

After awhile the art museums will start to look the same. Unless you are passionate about the art and architecture in Florence, stay a bit longer in Rome and stay on the train when heading to Venice. Compared to Rome and Venice, Florence is cramped and dirty.

A bit more about Rome...I stayed there a week and didn't see it all. It's easy to walk around and there's always a lovely church or fountain or square around every corner - but no shopping malls. St Peters will take a couple hours to see, especially if you climb the dome, but sometimes there are queues for security or a mass which closes parts of the Vatican. I wouldn't even attempt the Vatican gallery or Sistine Chapel, unless you were able to increase your time in Rome. There is an train from Fiumincino to Termini, not the cheapest choice but the fastest and I think speed will be of the essence on your trip.

The best way to pick cheap accommodation is through hostelworld.com. It's easy to rank hostels by user reviews, of which there are hundreds, so you will be able to avoid the fleapits and flophouses.

So my suggestions...more time in Rome by skipping Florence & Pisa.

Venice is gorgeous, but small, and can be seen in a day. You have to stay overnight and wander the streets in the evening, but you'll soon realise every canal looks the same. Plan on spending a lot of time going in circles. The vaporetto run all night, so yes, you can have a great time wandering around till the early hours looking at the spotlit churches and eating gelati (don't expect much nightlife though).

Flying to Athens is a good idea, though you'll have to factor in the time it takes to reach the airports and checking in (are you flying from Marco Polo or Treviso, it's a big difference!). Its main sites are concentrated in a small area so a couple days will cover it, plus a day on the beach or crossing over to Aegina is a great idea. You are on holiday after all.

As for Spain...you may be perfectly happy to spend the rest of your trip in Barcelona. The Spaniards love to drink and dine all night, so it would be a shame if you couldn't keep up. Plus you've got a beach in Barcelona. You may be missing out on the Prado and other treasurehouses in Madrid, but think yourself 'there is always next time' and you can start saving up to see Madrid, Toledo, Segovia, Seville, Cordoba and Granada on your next European trip! Happy trails!

I realize everyone has their own opinions/likes/dislikes, etc., but I think you do the Poster a disservice by being so negative on both VENICE and FLORENCE---I feel exactly the opposite about both. Certainly agree on saving Pisa for another time, though.