India Travel Forum

Hi everyone,

I'm interested in going to India, but have some questions:

I like "modern" cities to be honest. Rural life isn't really for me. It seems that many places in India still have that rural feeling to it (nothing wrong with it of course, I just wouldn't feel comfortable, being used to modern cities). Are there any cities which are very "modern" and comparable to a city in the US or Germany, France, etc.? I read Bangalore was the most modern city, is that true? (Probably wouldn't hurt that I'll work in IT ("web stuff"), as I might find like-minded people there, etc.). I saw some pics from Indian cities (including Bangalore) which looked extremely modern, pretty much like a US city, but I've also seen pictures that looked more like it's a very rural area. I assume it depends a lot on where one goes (downtown vs. outskirts)?

Do any of those bigger indian cities have good public transport..a nice subway system like most big SE asian cities for example? I love cities where one can get around without needing a car...

How are Indian people when it comes to foreigners? It seems they're not as reserved as people in most SE asian countries, but I could be wrong of course?

thank you everyone!

Delhi and Calcutta have subway systems but I don't feel that the distinction you are making between modern cities and "rural areas" covers anything like the type of urban development you find in a country like India. I have a feeling India is going to be a big shock to your system: Bangalore might well be the best entry-point despite lack of subway, otherwise Delhi. But I have to wonder exactly what it is you want to go to India for if you only feel comfortable in something like an American city. I think you would be happier in Singapore!

Dont goto india expecting a kuala lumpur or a singapore . Delhi has a subway system & is quite modern in the sense of the word .

I totally agree with the first two answers- India is India. Why not look at the VT pages on Delhi or Kolkata or Mumbai? There is plenty of information on VT.Delhi has much to offer- including modern subway & transport system- but I fear that Singapore might be more to your liking.Personally- Indian cities are MUCH more interesting and vibrant than any western city I know- and I have seen many.

Hello there,
Our four metros-- Delhi,Mumbai,Chennai and kolkotta -- are modern.While Delhi and Kolkatta have subway rails the others have a good bus system,Mumbai also has local trains.Hyderabad,a city in the south is also quite well developed.Taxis and 'auto rickshaws are not too expensive and so you don't necessarily have to depend on public transport.The cities are connected with each other by good rail,bus and air transport.
India is indeed very different from the other south asian countries.If you are looking for hi-tech modern development India is not the place.Indians are very friendly.Read the pages of Lynne(the previous poster)to get a better idea of the culture here.
hope this helps,
vpas

Oh boy. I would say that they are no "modern" cities in India that compare to a city like NY. All of the major Indian cities are noisy, dirty, extremely crowded, many are polluted, and the traffic is unbearable. While of course, India has its own culture, there is little of the cultural activites that you would find in say, NY, such as theater, concerts, sporting events, museums, etc. and what there is of those, will be different/and far less.

Each of the cities has its own IT/Tech areas and many are in an area just outside the "city". And yes, if you were to just see pictures of these companies, the buildings themselves would look just like any other office building in the west. They look "modern" because they are all new - so you'll find glass buildings, "fancy" buildings, etc. There are tons of call centres. Out of all the cities, I believe Bangalore has the most Tech companies (something like 2,000). Hyderbad has a huge area called Cyberabad, but that is definitely not a modern city by your definition.

City and rural by your definition and India's are probably different as well. Real rural here is someplace with no electricity, no indoor plumbing, etc. I live in what would be considered a suburb but I would consider it a small city! There is no sense of personal space anywhere at all. And public transportation will surely show you that! The Mumbai trains are notorious for their crowds - pushing, shoving. You may even miss your stop because you can't get off the train, or you may have to wait for several trains because you can't get on! The buses are tilted to one side from all the people in them - people packed in and pushed up against each other. I avoid public transportation as much as possible - and always during rush hours! You wouldn't need a car in any city - you can always take a rickshaw or taxi.

There are many foreigners in India now. Each big city has its own expats group that includes many nationalities. They are a good source of information, have get togethers, celebrate their own holidays, etc.

Although India is not an easy place to live, it's much easier than it was 5 years ago. Now there are malls and grocery stores! Indians are funny in that they are reserved in certain ways, but not in others. They'll try and help you - ask for directions and you'll have 5 people telling you which way to go - of course, you'll get 5 different answers. But they are very hospitable people.

I am wondering, do you have a job opportunity already? (You must have in order to get a work visa.) You need to weigh the financial aspect as well. Let me know if you want further information about that. (I am also in Tech - database/dp.)

If you are seriously considering moving to India, I would first make a trip here first. Good luck!

(To my Indian friends - no disrespect intended so please don't jump all over my post! Hugs to you.)

Gee, Donna- you sound as though you are really unhappy in India-!! I am not Indian, as you know, but love everything about it- including the mad chaos, crowds, heat, traffic et al. That is hard to get used to, but once one does, just going with the flow makes it easier. Of course, it is different as far as many things (almost everything)-go ,but refreshingly so. I personally loathe the huge, so called modern cities of today-where everything is so regimented, materialistic and "plastic".They are all beginning to look the same.
If one took the population of Sydney or New York- multiplied it by 10x, the buses & trains would also be crowded & chaotic.And polluted.
At least people help with a smile, in India- not so in most other places.
This is not a "jump all over you" by the way- I just am amazed that you are prepared to go on living somewhere when you seem so unhappy with the surroundings!!!I would love to exchange places- but we are determined to retire to India one day.There is enough culture (has been for thousands of years) for me, and museums that would all take a long time to get through-

Hey Lynne,
Thank for giving a good view point.
Vpas

oops,point of view

Bangalore is bengaluru now (old name) but the city is quite modern, even though we do not have metro rails, underground railways etc,.
I being a bangalorian by birth, i can say you a lot has changed now,
There are the old places like chickpet(where I live) full of congestion, traffic snarls etc., but it is the place for all the business purposes, since most of the goods to the highclass malls go from here.
Most of the cities in India have become modern, like bengaluru, hyd, gurgoan,
chandigarh etc, but these cant be compared with Paris,london etc.
If you like a modern city. than bangalore is the best compared to all other cities in India, with regard, to hospitality, language (most people understand english) and they are not reserved people.
Decide and welcome to Bengaluru

Hi Lynne - (How are you? Know you must be getting ready to leave soon! me too!) First there is a huge difference between being a tourist and living in India. The things that you deal with on a day to day basis in other countries can be a nightmare here - like doing banking, dealing with utility companies, etc. It can take FOREVER to get the smallest things done. To get things done quickly - or even at all - may require a bribe - even at the government level. A bribe for someone to DO their job!! They've even published in the newspaper the amount that you should bribe a cop if you get stopped for a traffic infraction! When I moved here, I came with alot of ideals and hopes that so many of the terrible things would change (especially the poverty). Mostly, it is like moving a mountain, which is just so incredibly sad. You get tired of fighting it all. But yes, I have been to some amazing places here and met some wonderful people. (I have an AMAZING husband and great in-laws.)

On the real down side, I have been groped enough in crowded public places to avoid going to such places as much as I can. I have been harrassed when trying to get all the paperwork done for my marriage - being made to jump through hoops at some panchayat's whim (which no Indian would have to do). I've been ripped off because of the color of my skin. My husband has had to deal with lewd comments about me because of the color of my skin as we walk past people on the streets. (Too much HBO and Baywatch for those guys, I guess.) My husband has been mistaken for my driver, my guide, etc. because truthfully some Indians do not treat each other with respect or even nicely. I have seen cops hit rickshaw drivers! You read about people hitting or abusing a maid, or a "servant" as she's called. One tight smack, as they say here. These things are in direct contrast to how I was raised. Not to say they don't happen in other countries but to be a target of so much really gets to you. As you know, I was in Aurangabad last week. If I had one more cell phone camera in my face, I was going to scream. There are more examples but you get the idea.

I go back to my journals of my first few visits here - when I was a tourist - and I am amazed at how enchanted I was. I LOVED the colors, the noise, even the smells! I sure had rose colored glasses on! They've now lost some of their tint. I definitely wish I could see it that way again. The things that you love about it are things that someone who has not travelled alot may freak out about. The truth IS that India is dirty, noisy, polluted, and over-crowded. I don't even think that an Indian can disagree with that. It is unlike any other place and there are people who do not like it. (I know several Indians who have gone out of the country on business and don't want to return when they see how other countries are.) It takes alot of getting used to. You learn to live with blinders on so you don't see as much.

Your point about multiplying other cities by a certain amount is true to a degree. Unfortunately there is no planning here. The "fixes" (flyovers, bridges, monorails) that are beginning to happen now won't be done for years and guess what? They'll be outdated by the time they're done. I used to be able to drive into the "city" in 45 minutes. Now it takes a good 2 2 1/4 hours.

I live here because my life is here now. My husband, our business, etc. It is not really by choice. I miss my family, my friends, my food, snow, holidays, organization, cleanliness, doing things like going to a concert or a play or a hockey game, etc., etc.!! And I am hoping that at some point in the future we move to the U.S. so I can come back as a tourist and be enchanted all over again.

In the meantime, I'll settle for being home for Christmas!

Happy Travels!

Excellently put Donna . Living in India does require some getting used to .Do you happen to be a column writer or did you just blurt your heart out ? Either way , a must read for people who want to relocate to India - not just come for a 2 week visit.

My two paisa's worth: Gurgaon, a suburb of Delhi and Bombay's Bandra Kurla would be the "most" modern cities (or districts/suburbs) I could think of. Bangalore despite its Silicon Valley status remains bogged down by inadequate infrastructure. Hyderabad - or at least parts of it - would be another good candidate.

Wondering if the OP will ever come back to read and acknowledge all this. I think he/she is in for a rude shock upon landing in Bangalore with the expectation that it is a "modern" city.

Having been traveling to India for 11 years now I can say that a lot has changed, and small pieces of India have become MORE modern, but on the whole the country is still maybe 1% of the way there...if that much. I was in Gurgaon last month, after not having been there for four years, and was pretty amused. There are certainly very modern, flashy buildings there, but to get to many of them you have to drive on a dirt/gravel/mud road right up to the driveway--no one has taken the trouble to build roads in the district. And you are still driving past goats and cows wandering around the empty lots. I'm not sure "modern" is the right adjective. More like "schizophrenic." In Hyderabad and Pune, there are brand-new stores like Benetton and the Gap on the downtown streets, but still paan-wallahs in the shop next door to them. To be honest I am more shocked by the existence of the Benettons than by the "old India" that is still dominant.

OP:
Seems from your message that you intend to visit India as a tourist. Good WELCOME.

However if you wish to see a modern city like that of in USA, there are none.
So suggest plan your visit to Germany or France etc.

Bangalore is IT centre..not modern in your meaning of 'USA modern'. The buildings that you have seen could have been the offices of some IT companies..just a few companies only but the city itself as you say (pretty much rural) is not modern as compared to USA. If you want to see just those few buildings in Bangalore, then you can visit Bangalore!!
No city in India has good public transport system....so if you are keen to have a good public transport system without needing a car, then plan your trip to any of SE asian countries.

Indian people to foreigners ...you have to feel for yourself.

It is nice to know that you are looking a city which is:
...a Modern as USA or germany or France,and has..
...nice subway sytems as SE asian countries.and
....friendly people not those reserved type of SE asian countries.

Please forget visiting India and plan your trip within USA itself.

Hi Julie - I am sure we scared the OP away. "Schizophrenic" cracked me up! Mumbai is definitely a city of multiple personalities.

Have you been to Atria Mall by Haji Ali (it's the mall with the Rolls Royce dealership)?? Even Linking Road in Bandra is full of Western stores now. I'm just waiting for a Victoria's Secret, then I'll really know it's time to leave. :-)

Seriously everyone, the OP was looking for something specific - a modern city (by HIS definition and comparison). As many of us have suggested, this might not be the place for him. It doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad place.

I have been in contact for a while with a U.S. woman who should have just arrived in Bangalore today. It was her first trip to India and she is considering living here. She didn't have any illusions or unrealistic expectations and I think that is the key. (I don't think it would help anyone to sugarcoat the facts.) Anyway, after (hopefully) helping her with alot of information, I think she will be fine.

I sincerely hope I did not offend my Indian friends as that is never my intention!

I'm sure the opening of Victoria's Secret is not far away. I do expect this sort of thing in Bombay, even Hyderabad, but somehow seeing a Benetton in downtown Pune was just too much for me!

''dude'' please beware of india....its a no good country...there are lions and tigers in every city, people are aborignal and in some cases they kill eachother for meat...everything is messed up...there is no light no buildings no nothing

come on!!! where have you been living that you needed to ask such a question? seriously i wonder if you have a television set at home ...cause if in the past 2-3 years if you would have watched it you too would have woken up to the power of india....in every sense

just leave your notions out and come over....hit my city mumbai and you wont wana leave...

Hehe y ou guys didnt even give me 24 hours to reply - I had to sleep and work! ;).

I dont plan on moving there ,Im just interested in travelling particularly Asia, so I've been thinking about countries I could go to..India being one of them Ive thought about (partially because English is spoken there by many, but thats not the main reason). Ive seen pics of Bangalore that looked like your average modern city in Europe/the US (maybe it was the CBD or something?), whereas Ive seen other pics that looked very rural.

Sorry @ the guy who took offense, I didnt think that many indians killed each other in order to eat....

I guess KL might be a better choice for me? Im really just pondering at the moment and dont have any particular plans, yet

anyway thanks for the feedback!

Geez, what are you trying to do to me? :-)

Well, now that we know what you were looking for, we can help you out. The India that has been described does exist but there are wonderful places here and everyone must visit India at one time. What do you like to do when you travel? Other than big cities? Are you interested in historical places (fabulous palaces and forts here), nautre (tigers in the wild are amazing), partying (Mumbai), beaches (Goa), etc.? Some great cities here including Jaipur, Darjeeling, Khujaraho, etc., etc.

If we haven't scared you away, please look at the VT pages for India to get a better idea of what there is; there really is so much to see. Travel is inexpensive and you'll have stories to tell for years! If you're interested, you'll get a ton of good info here. Happy Travels!

OK, Singapore and Hong Kong would be your best bets, both modern (in the true sense of the word), both use English.

Hi Donna. "There is no sense of personal space anywhere." What is your meaning - that the place is so crowded, or that privacy is not cherished as it is in the West? I've never been to Asia at all, so please don't think that I'm taxing you!

Re the question of privacy & private space ( or lack of it) in India-yes- there is little- but in the given context- when people live under the conditions that most Indians live under ( like one even two families with many children living in a small room or flat) privacy is not only almost impossible, but the lack of it is accepted. MOST Indians do not crave the need for privacy the way western societies do, because they have NEVER known it.Basic personal daily needs such as washing & bathing are done in public, at ghats.They don't have a tiled bathroom with bath & shower to themselves.Let alone a private bedroom. These are the facts. Nowadays many Indians, who work hard and are being financially rewarded,can of course afford to live well- but still, the majority do not have what they need.This may be why Indians love so much to frequent their parks and open public spaces.

> What is your meaning - that the place is so crowded, or that privacy is not cherished as it is in the West?

I'm not Donna but can still answer this question: BOTH. It can be quite off-putting to someone raised in the US or Europe. Not every place is so crowded, but when someplace is crowded in India, it's overwhelming (to me, certainly). And people can really get all over you.

As a white-skinned person, your personal space can basically vanish, because many people in India are really fascinated by you. I cannot tell you how many times I have had Indian people come up to me at various touristy places in the country and ask to have their picture taken with me--as a very fair-skinned person with red hair, I *am* the tourist attraction. It can get a little old, especially if you are just trying to be by yourself or with friends and just have a quiet moment!

Hi John - Westerners are used to a certain amount of space around us such as while standing in line. "They" say we need about a foot around us. I think that's probably true. And while there are places where that may not always be possible (such as the bus or train), it drives me crazy when standing on a line (where there is plenty of space) when the person behind me is so close I can just about feel their breath. That is what I meant by personal space.

Hi Donna dear ! I joined late and feel you are simply home sick, nothing else!! I feel you need that much needed energy booster ( Visit to to your home and pals in Long Island). You deserve it dear. A girl who have been raised in Long Island, US will surely have cultural, emotional, racial, fundamental shock in India or any country in Asia except Singapore, Japan and to some extent China.

Yes dear we have not progressed as much the west did or the Japanese and Chinese did. We have more than a billion mouths to feed, we have been made slave for more than 300 years by Brits and other Europeans. Before this for about 7/800 years by invaders from Central Asia and Arabia. Some of them ( Mughals/ Lodhis) chose to be here and made it their country. Then we had independence and then we had fought 4 major wars with China and Pakistan( 1962/ 1965/1971/1999. Besides this we are continuously fighting with Insurgencies in the East, Terror in the North and now in West for the last 48 years. Please tell me where is the time and money with us for making our country developed like US, Europe or for that matter like China with our little GDP. We are maintaining largest army to protect our borders from all six sides, buying military hardware( worth US$17000Billion) from Europe and US, to keep their income and employment steady, so that they should remain healthy and always employed at our cost. On the other side never a war was fought on American soil, they continued to rule all over the world. Surely, the Americans and The Europeans were better planners who ensured better future for their sons and daughters like you. Please remember, India used to be Golden country a few centuries ago that is why your forefathers from Europe came here as traders and became the rulers for three hundred years. That time we were worth gold that's why they chose to remain here and rule.

I feel your reply should be circulated to all, it will wake us up and may be in 20 years or so some of our cities will be as good for living as any good city in the States, then you can come back as tourist and enjoy your stay.

Good luck and happy journey!! We shall miss you, we may smell but we offer unconditional love, perhaps you could not appriciate.

Welcome to the conversation Goutam! I'm so deep in it now that I'm just going to keep on going. Yes, of course I am homesick, but it is a way of living. I am much better than 5 years ago. I don't cry at all anymore. Thanks for your concern though.

I'm aware of India's history, current situations/problems, etc. Most Indians will agree that there are fundamental problems here that start with the corrupt government. Are you not a democratic society with elected officials? You are a BILLION people strong, can you not band together to demand change? (Look at the political changes since the Mumbai attacks. All because people are finally fed up.) I don't understand the people who just don't DO anything but yet they criticize everything. (That part is the same worldwide. If you are not part of the solution, at least don't be part of the problem. Not referring to you in particular.) Politicians here prey on the weakest element of the society - the poor - they promise them anything to get their vote and then don't deliver
on their promises. The U.S. has just had an historical election because people were fed up. They came out in record numbers to vote because they had the power to make a change. YOU do too.

You ask where is the time and money? How many people in India do not pay any kind of taxes at all or adjust their income to pay less taxes? I know several (including previous landlords). They take particular glee in screwing your government because they feel so screwed by them! And then of course, if you do pay taxes, what do you get?? Any kind of social services - money to help the poor, the elderly, the sick, etc., good roads, clean water, public bathrooms, anything?? The answer is No. You get nothing for your tax money. It's lining some politicians pockets. How about people selling property, including builders, who actually advertise in the paper the amount of "black" money they want. WHAT??? Just another way to avoid taxes. Why doesn't anyone check these people? It's the tech age, certainly someone can cross check bank accounts, property deeds, etc. Every person should be assigned a PAN number at the time of birth and from then on you should be required to submit it for anything you do from going to school to getting a job. But you also have to put the burden on the other side (schools, employers, etc.) to require it, and that's where it seems to fall apart here. Even if one side tries or wants to do the correct thing doesn't mean the other side will as well. (And of course, that doesn't account for children whose birth may not be recorded.) I no doubt admit how difficult it would be to change the system but why can't something be done? People need to start somewhere.

In light of the recent attacks on Mumbai, in which the police, firemen, NSG, and ATS were all ridiculously underequipped or not equipped at all, and the fact that our seas are STILL not protected sufficiently, how can I believe that kind of money is actually spent on military hardware? Where is that money really going?

You mention how you are keeping Western income and employment steady. Try mentioning "outsourcing" in the U.S. How many people in the U.S. lost their jobs to India? So many close to retirement - having a tough time even finding another job, never mind one that was at their current salary. I'm sure there are some right here on VT. How many people now in India are making much more money than they might otherwise be able to make because of outsourcing or foreign companies opening offices here? How about the thousands of U.S. tech companies that are bringing in crores and crores of rupees to India? Money is flowing freely here with young people thinking nothing of dropping $400-500 on a cell phone or the latest gadget. Unfortunately I think there will be a big fallout from this; they just can't see it yet. And what's worse is that all this money is only affecting certain segments of the society. The very poor are still very poor. Why?

Some Indians take so much offense at anything negative said about the country. I understand. I get annoyed as hell at all the frequent U.S. bashing in the newspapers here. But Indians do want things that the West has and yes, some of them will even admit it! So maybe it's better to learn from the West instead of bashing them. (I am NOT saying everything the West does is right; you should learn from our mistakes as well.)

Many people here believe the rules are not for them. "They" can do whatever they want whether it's the ordinary person driving their car on the incorrect side of the road (yes!) into oncoming traffic because they don't want to have to drive down the road a little and make a u-turn or whether it's a Bollywood celebrity not paying the correct taxes or the octroi on the very expensive car they've just imported or the Bollywood celebrity that kills endangered animals or the Bollywood actor who mows down innocents in Mumbai while he was drunk and then blamed it on his driver. (And these are the heros here??) If there was any punishment here for anything, there would be changes. How much different things are since the cops FINALLY got serious with drunk drivers!!

I don't pretend to know all the answers. It's just so frustrating to watch what goes on. I think education is one of the best answers. It should be every child's right to be educated. And I'm sorry to say that includes "sex"
education. How can anyone continue to have children when they live under a tarp on the streets? NO child deserves that. Then there's the "abortion" pill which seems to be so popular among the youth. Prevention is always better than cure. It's an iffy subject here. But with Bollywood actresses falunting their bodies and prostitution doing a booming business (certainly here in Mumbai), do people really think it's not going on?? How about educating them so that a young girl knows that how an uncle, brother, or father may be touching her is inapporpriate??

You mention about your illustrious history. How about taking care of your beautiful country? At the many World Heritage sites or monuments maintained by the Archaeological Survery of India that I have visited, the only one that was not littered with trash was the Taj Mahal. Why?? Because people are so used to just throwing their trash in the street that they think they can do it anywhere. (The Taj Mahal does not allow outside food or sell food inside.) The beaches (and the sea itself!) here in Juhu (and the area) are filthy - littered with waste of all kinds. Teach the children to do right by each other, by their country, by the earth; they are truly the future of the world and of this country.

A small step by everyone, that's all it takes. I am in no way intending to bash Indians as a Westerner. Even if I were an Indian, I would still be saying the same things. I have already heard it all myself FROM Indians. I think that is the big difference here. Would you be as offended if one of your office colleagues or friends was telling you the same things? Somehow, I don't think so. Please do tell me if any of my facts presented are incorrect.

As far as people's perception of India, I don't think Indians should take offense at that either. It's been claimed that Indians are curious or fascniated or whatever by foreigners (to the point that you take our picture,
touch our light hair, etc.) but if some Westerner wants to know if they really are cows in the street, you freak out. Well, yea, there ARE cows on the street. We're used to our cows being on the farm.

I don't treat people differently because of the color of their skin, their religion, their job, their finances, etc. I don't believe in physically assaulting anyone either. Does that make me a bad person? I certainly have
never said "you smell" and it's petty of you to suggest that I did. If you are referring to my comment about the smells of India I stand by that. India can smell of wonderful foods cooking on the road or the dirty smells on the beaches. So what? Lots of countries have distinctive smells. If it p*sses you off that you think someone thinks your country smells badly, do something about it.

The first time I went out of the country with my husband was to Singapore. (He had only been to another Asian country very briefly once before.) He just loved how organized and clean everything was and how everyone followed the rules, drove within the lines, whatever. He wondered frequently during the trip - "why can't India be like that?". When we walked across the Brooklyn Bridge in NY, he stopped to read the informational plaque. When he read that it was built in the 1860's-1870's he was saddened that in over 60 years of independence, India was still so far beyond. He felt this way because he loves his country and wants it to be better just like so many other Indians.

I absolutely recognize unconditional love and am fortunate enough to be unconditionally loved by many people in my life. I also know when someone "uses" me for their own gain (even because of the color of my skin). Thanks for the offer, but I have more than enough love in my life. I am curious to know what you think is unconditional love and in what context you think I would get it here!!

No doubt about it, India has some of the finest, smartest minds in the world. Why do so many leave the country? Maybe they can stay and start to solve the country's problems so India can be what it is capable of being. Even I would like a better place for my future child. Yes, India, it's time to WAKE UP.

O boy !!! I am sure more people will join the discussion as time goes by . Makavelli , bet you are thinking of giving India a miss now :)

Wow! What an outburst! I must admit that your hatred has lots of LOVE for India. In fact, you want India to be like US or Europe and also behave like them but in reality we have miles to go. India is a poor country which proudly calls itself developing country. Industrially we are much behind US, UK, Japan, France, Australia. India's no is 14 th among heavily industrialised country. As you know it is not the software business or outsorcing ( it's just the icing which looks pretty)which is the solid base of economy but it is the heavy industry which brings in lot of money, employment and purchasing power of a nation.

I must admit whatever you said about India is correct in it's own sense we must try to get together and build the nation. Unfortunately, our politicians are not wholly honest and corruption is prevelent in almost all strata of our life. The reason is again economic backwardness, if you have enough money you need not to be corrupt to save tax or avoid tax or earn money unscrupulously.
Today, we feel our post Independence economic planners lacked wisdom, who never gave enough thought to the developing the nation even in 60 years. Well another school of thoughts says they were not allowed to....... Have you ever heard of PL480? Or the food aid to India after J.F Kennedy, it continued till Lyndon B. Johnson and Richard Nixon. Indian economy had to be switched to USSR ( Russia), which resulted in India could not go far though we have the best brains among the world. Many of our Technocrats, Engineers, cream de la cream of brains are settled in US as they could not find it worth living in India. Why? Because India could not afford them or retain their talent. They were not ready to sacrifice them for their country in the re-building process. This was Brain Drain to the west. I sincerely feel that atlest some of them could have come back and could have contributed to develop India of your dream.

I am sure you have read Adam Smith, the basics of economy is first comes Food, Clothes and then Shelter. We have so many to feed that our income is not sufficient enough. We have one billion people. India remains a poor and unfocused country. Only some fortunate people have had education, travel and probably sufficient food. The recent economy is open to the world since 1990's and that is how it attracts the economic giants and most of them are from the States. The economic giants are here to reap the financial benefit from the growing economy. But they were not to be seen when India was dying and bleeding. They have not contributed anything towards the development of the country but they are here to reap the benefit of higher income ( disposable income after food, cloth & shelter. They also have provided employment to some people but the salary? You shall laugh if you hear the salary of the MNCs to Indians. It is in total contrast to that of what they pay to their country of origin or to White Skinned people. Am I offending you? I hope not as I too work for an MNC and many of my VT friends have seen me on line till 10PM working at the office or work on weekends or on Sundays. Why? because we have too many skilled people for a simple job. Why the discripency? My counter parts who come from Europe stay in the Hayatt and are paid many times more than me, have lesser knowledge than me on many things but gets more, never works on weekends. His social security of his country of origin does not allow this. Dont' you also think that those giant corporations could also have paid at par to Indians and be part of nation developing process? The answer is negative as because they have come here to strengthen their economy not ours as the labour/ skill is very cheap here compared to that of your country or Europe. I hope I have answered you why there are so many call centres and outsourcing of the job to India. Donna dear, it is your own countrymen who is duping your own people ( robing of their jobs)for their own financial benefit. I think you remember what Barak Obama said to your countrymen as election promise. He will stop outsourcing to India, China, Philippines and other Asian countries. And you know who opposed? No other than Mr.Bill Gates and other MNCs immediately. Let me tell you that he will assume power in January but he will never be able to deliver the goods because of your own big giants will not want that business to be stopped.

I am sure Indians are thankful to the Americans/ Europeans to have selected Indians for worth and helping India to revive it's economy.

India has a very large army and borders, it needs to be protected by keeing the military operation and continuosly developing/ modernising their fire power. Indian tax payers money goes there. India is one of the largest buyer of Military hardware, Air Crafts etc and that kind of money goes there. Please check net for our GDP/GNP and expenditure. If we had lesser borders, lesser enemy we would surely have utilized money indeveloping the country.

BTW this will be my last post on India Travel forum as it is turning out to be political forum. I hate politics and the politicians but love my country. If someone wants to write to me he/ she is welcome.

Goutam.

> BTW this will be my last post on India Travel forum as it is turning out to be political forum.

And whose fault is that???

I see NO 'hate' in any of these postings; just different perspectives (obviously) coming from different viewpoints depending upon Nationality. We can't be held responsible for where we were born!--but look at where we live!)

And isn't someone's VT Motto a Rudyard Kipling quote about 'smelling a country first'??? --- isn't that one of the first reasons we return to a country/city!?