London Travel Forum

I just visited All Saints Parish Church in Kingston-upon-Thames and felt bewildered by its history and somehow I connected with the past of that place.

What I find really sad about London is its tragic history of the Great Fire in the 17th century, the further destruction of old city's layout by king George in the 19th century and the German bombings in the 20th century.

Are there any historical sites left in London? I don't mean the famous historical sited in Westminster or Tower of London where you pay horrendous entrance fees to feel something ancient and spiritual.

Is there anything left?

I would appreciate some tips from the natives of this ancient city.

I want to connect with the local historical past and feel it within my heart.

Well, there is not much that remains of anything older than Tudor times. Remember, there were no building regulations in those days and the buildings were often poorly built and unstable. In any case a lot of it will be unterground. Buildings tend to get built on top of the ruins of older buildings. They say Tudor London is twenty feet underground.

However, go out of London and you will still find buildings that have survived. Hampton Court is a Tudor Place. There are other examples and plenty of Norman castles and Abbeys.

To see the old buildiongs you need a car and Heritage Pass or whatever they call it these days. So you can visit the stately homes run by the National Trust and English Heritage. Often small villages have fine examples of 17th century building. Such places, as they in the vicinity of London have long since been built upon by later generations. I think the appreciation of older styles and design is a fairly new attitude.

You will find that a great deal of vandalism took place during the Reformation. Many ornately decorated places of worship found themselves out of favour in the 16th century and were stripped of their finery or raised to the ground.

Before that, the Vikings decimated medieval art and burnt monastaries.

If you want to connect with history, find a nice old village and a B&B in an 16th or 17th century cottage.

One thing you must be aware of is that London, tight up to Dickens' time, was actually a series of villages. The 'heart' of ancient London is the City: walled and its gates closed in the evening (as was usual for fortified towns).

The other major point is that although London is now the capital city, it has not always been. Other towns and cities (Winchester, York, Colchester etc) were much more important in the ancient past: remember too that ancient England was a series of separate kingdoms for many centuries (until early Medieval times).

As mentioned above, building in stone in the UK was always mainly for the rich and for the church, so few buildings remain. Archaeologists can find the 'footprints' of wooden structures, but there is little for the layperson to see. Prior to the Roman invasion London was not an particularly important place, a small port village. Roman Londinium (again, largely wooden) was razed during the Boudiccan rebellion. The Saxon 'Lundonwic' (wooden structures) was not on the site of modern London.

The major seat of the English monarchy was, for many centuries, Winchester: it was only in the late Medieval times that London became its base. Norman London was entirely concentrated around the Tower (wooden structures elsewhere).

The find the earliest remains of London, you must consider archaeological sites discovered during building work (although many of these are re-covered after excavation, and many more were entirely destroyed prior to the law regarding archaeological excavation being changed fairly recently). Many such sites are inaccessible to the public even when excavated.

The outer areas of London, once villages, have more extant ancient sites.

So that really only leaves the Medieval churches and (very few) stone buildings. Existing Ancient English churches and cathedrals are most frequently built on the site of previous wooden structures, so one can be pretty sure that a cathedral which dates from, say, 1400s was preceded by something from 800-900.

You can explore archaeological discoveries/excavations in London here:

http://www.londonarchaeologist.org.uk/

http://www.molg.org.uk/English/NewsRoom/Archived07/MoLASAHRCAward.htm

Roman remains in central London: bits of the city walls around the City (there is a fairly big chunk opposite the Tower), the Temple of Mithras in Queen Victoria Street (behind a fence...it's been moved from its original site). It There is also a Roman amphitheatre preserved under the Guildhall Yard, which is interesting to visit.

Otherwise, you must seek out the early Medieval churches which are dotted about:

http://www.britainexpress.com/London/medieval-churches.htm

The Vikings had no effect on what remains in London, as Saxon 'Lundonwic' was elsewhere. The effects of the Reformation (and of the later Civil War/Puritans) can be seen in many English churches and cathedrals: noses knocked off memorials etc. The move away from the lavish decoration of churches began with the move away from Rome but some Medieval churches still show traces of their pre-Reformation wall-paintings etc, discovered during modern restoration and renovation.

I'll be happy to answer questions about pre-Tudor London/UK in more detail/depth if you email me via VT: UK archaeology and pre-Tudor history is my 'thing'.

Although I'm tempted to ramble on at length, it's not really appropriate on the travel forum. :-)

Thanks everyone for your feedback! I didn't expect so many quick and thorough replies to my question.

It sounds like I have to get out of London sometimes and explore its environs which are more authentic than London itself. Sometimes one gets tired with its hectic atmosphere and lack of local flavour. And it seems possible to hop on the train during the weekend and explore something interesting - Winchester and Colchester sound great! York, Salisbury are world famous for its cathedrals but that's further afield and needs to wait on my visit list.

I studied art history a while ago in Paris and we had some sessions on British medieval art. I was a bit disappointed to be unable to reconnect with those sites and the famous "English Decorative Style" that characterized late Medieval Art in England. When you live in Paris it's much easier to find old sites - Notre Dame cathedral in the very city centre, free entry for all. Though the surrounding Cite was ravaged by the works of Haussman who destroyed medieval Paris. However, you can also visit for free Basilique St Denis where all the French kings were crowned and enjoy les Rosaces and other vitraux. This must or must have existed here in England.

Sometimes I have an impression that there is no history here but I know I'm wrong - I just don't know where to look for its traces.

Thanks locals for your replies!

Cheers,

Ronald

As well as previous comprehensive replies 20-30 mins by train will get you from St Pancras to St Albans.

The site of ancient Roman Verulamium (several incarnations as a Roman town once destroyed famously by Boudicca) and the site of a wonderful Norman Abbey Cathedral plus Old Coaching Inns to name but a few of the delights in store.

Try the Museum of the Order of St John in Clerkenwell. The Museum and Library of the Order of St John is housed in the 16th century gatehouse, St John's Gate, that formed the southern entrance to a Priory covering 10-acres of Clerkenwell in medieval times and you can visit the Norman crypt (Tuesdays, Fridays and Saturdays)
www.sja.org.uk/sja/about-us/our-museum/visit-us/tour-the-priory.aspx

It is in the nature of any great city that it grows andchanges and evolves and inevitably that process entails the destruction of what was. London is full of reminders of it's past. Buildings come and go: sometimes a blessing, sometimes something to regret. The structure of the city is at least thousand years old. The seventeenth-century city part of which went up in 1666 (a wonderfully easily memorable date, the millenium of the Year of the Beast and also theyear of another fire that must have destroyed marvels, that in the Topkapi palace in Istanbul)was largely of wood: if you want to see that kind of timber-framed building there are many places in the UK - Ludlow in Shropshire springs to mind -

You can see a great model of the Fire of London at the City of London museum in the Barbican. The model itself is an antique, made byone of londons oldest architectural modelmaking businesses.

The city existed as a small settlement before the Romans came 2000 years ago. They (eventually) built a wall around much of what eventually became known as 'the City'. You can see a tiny part of the Roman wall opposite the Tower of London (the original Norman keep is itself nearly 100 years old).

Timber-framed buildings can be found all over England, although very few date from earlier than the late 1500s/1600s (and many are later). They should not, by the way, be the black-and-white they so often are: this was an early Victorian fashion. The correct colours are natural wood and cream for the pasterwork (the 'wattle & daub'). As these buildings are gradually being restored they are being returned to this correct colouring, which is good.

The Victorians had a penchant for the mock Tudor, and it is style that is regularly revisited.

It is easy to spot the original buildings, they are often very misshapen. Odd, low doorways, upper floors overhanging the street. Clearly predating any sort of building regulation.

Some buildings are very odd mixtures of styles with parts added in phases over the centuries.

Go to a place like Stratford on Avon, centre of the Shakespeare heritage industry, and you find that for many buildings on the high street, only the facade is preserved. The backs of the buildings are often quite modern to meet the demands of modern retail emporiums.

Buidings are Graded according to their historical and architecural merit by English Heritage. There are some very strong building rules that try to ensure that architectural heritage is preserved.

http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/server/show/nav.1374

....there are the exposed foundations of a Roman temple of Mithras near Blackfriars station.

This one?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_of_Mithras,_London

Has it been relocated (as planned for last year)?

That's the one. Opposite that Terry Farrell bit of flimflam. Was still there last time I looked but that was maybe a year ago.

<<......Are there any historical sites left in London? >>
London is a living city. All great cities are palimpsests.

It was supposed to be re-located in 2007 (to its original location, apparently), so maybe it's elsewhere now.