Bali Travel Forum

Anybody have any suggestions for a long term car rental, or possibly buying a used car for 1 year in Bali? We can possibly get by without one by using locals drivers, or renting for short periods.
This brings my next question; Our last stay we rented bikes for a few months, but the bikes were pretty old. Should we bring decent mountain bikes, or is it cheaper (cost to ship them), and easier, to buy them in Bali/Indonesia?

Long term rentals are easily arranged through the car rental agencies that serve Bali. Three Brothers is one I can recommend. Buying a car here is not an option for a foreigner unless they are on a kitas (residency) visa.

Thanks, I think I rented a 4-runner from 3 brothers for a month the last time I visited. I thought there might be better deals in Kuta or Denpasar.

A good place to look for good deals is in the automotive classified sections of both The Bali Advertiser and The Bali Times. Both are English language, and both are on-line as well.

Three Brothers is by no means the very best deal, however, their vehicles are in good shape and reliable. Cheers!

Hi
Just for an added bit of information. Should you decide to buy or rent a car for self drive, (and because you are staying for an extended period), you should consider obtaining an Indonesian Driving Licence,once you are over here HOWEVER YOU WILL NEED TO BRING AN INTERNATIONAL DRIVING LICENSE TO OBTAIN ONE. They have changed the rules recently, before you only needed the KITAS (Temporary Residence)to get an Indonesian License but his has now changed, so you definately need to have an INTERNATIONAL LICENSE. Without this or an Indonesian License the likelyhood of you being stopped by the police and "Fined" for driving without a license is great. Also any insurance you have would be null if you are involved in an accident without a license, therefore you would be fully responsible for all costs for damages etc (even if it isn't your fault. Please be aware that ordinary driving licenses from outside of Indonesia are not recognised.

As far as your question about bikes, they are available and range in costs from around 500,000Rp to 3,000,000Rp it all depends on what you want.

Sorry, but I disagree with some parts of the previous post. An international driver’s license is fine for a one year lease for any motor vehicle here in Bali...be it a motor bike, or car. Obtaining an Indonesian issued driver’s license is not required for a stay of only one year.

Ownership of a motor vehicle (non bike), i.e. car, Kijang, Jimmy etc. still requires the foreigner to hold a kitas visa, or the use of an Indonesian sponsor (who will own the car). Most all private borrowing, or leasing arrangements using an Indonesian sponsor will NOT include ANY insurance.

Insurance for the vehicle leased through a registered company is normally included with any rentals, but this insurance is ONLY for damage to the vehicle and it does NOT include personal injury or liability insurance.
Self driving in Bali, even among seasoned expats is a crap shoot. Regardless of the circumstances that would normally exonerate a driver from fault, any foreigner driving in Bali is always at fault when this unfortunate incident occurs.

I guess that's why they say to just keep on driving if you hit something.
Does anybody know about how much it would cost to bring a bike as a piece of luggage on a flight?
Also, do the same rules apply for a working visa, as with the sponsor visa?

Sorry UBUDIAN, but I disagree with some of your comments also.

First of all I didn't suggest that Indonesiaon License was necessary, it is only an option, based on sometimes the International Driving license runs out before the person leaves. THE POINT BEING THAT THE VISITOR NEEDS AN INTERNATIONAL DRIVING LICENSE MINIMUM.

As to your comments about insurance it's up to the individual to insure their car, but fully comprehensive insurance IS easily AVAILABLE if you want it, which covers damage AND injury for the driver and passengers, and also includes damage and injury to third party.

StephanB
To obtain a working visa you need the sponsorship of a registered indonesian company, If the company is a PT company (limited liability), then it has to be of either the medium size or large size company. The applications and forms required to obtain a working visa that the company needs to complete are complicated and can be expensive, and can take up to 3 months to complete.

Oh and also rental or lease from a registered company can include the fully comprehensive insurance which covers damage personal injury and third party cover. Some companies even offer damage waiver insurance, and a no claims refund. So NOT ALL RENATAL/LEASED VEHICLES come with no insurance. I know this because my company is such a company that has the insurance, and many of my business associates and fellow car rental/lease companies offer the samre cover. So don't be put off from long term rental or leasing just make sure that the insurance cover which IS available is included.

OP wrote:

“Anybody have any suggestions for a long term car rental, or possibly buying a used car for 1 year in Bali?”

BesarRahasia wrote,

“Should you decide to buy or rent a car for self drive, (and because you are staying for an extended period), you should consider obtaining an Indonesian Driving Licence,once you are over here.”

Point is:

International driver’s licenses are good for at least one year, (AAA), so no need for an Indo driving license. Since the OP, Stephan is from the US, an AAA international drivers license is all he would need.

As for visa advice Stephan, I strongly suggest you consult with a professional like PT Bali Ide. There is a whole host of erroneous information to be found on the internet regarding visa requirements and procedures, moreover, there is no consistency in visa issuance by the Indonesian embassies world wide that issue visas. This is further complicated by a further lack of consistency to be found between the two immigration offices in Bali, and even within each of these offices. Best advise is to use a pro and the company used by the vast majority of expats in Bali is PT Bali Ide: http://www.bali-expat-business.com/

Cheers, and good luck with your one year in Bali!

Thank you very much for all the information. My sister-in-law has started a clothing company out of Bali. She lives in the U.S. and she only has a few people working for her (not full time). Once she obtains her workers ID number (not exactly sure of the correct terminolgy), she thought it would be easy to supply a letter stating that I would be working for her company. It sounds like this is not as easy as we thought it might be. Should we instead look at getting ahold of some friends we met there the last time we visited and try to find a sponsor? Thanks again.

Hi Stephan
Well as Ubudian says, it is a minefield for getting working permit right, and so many people get it wrong.

Take his advice and seek the help of an agent, and Bali IDE are one of the best.

As we don't know the situation and position regarding your sister in law and the clothing company,it is difficult to advise. However just for some basic information there are basically 3 types of company in Indonesia who can sponsor forign employees/investors

The first is called a CV this is like a very samll buisness, it is not limited for the liability to the director(indonesian names), the CV has to be registered in the name of 1 Indonesian citizens (more would be safer). A CV company cannot sponsor a foriegn person as an employee of that company. However a CV company can sponsor up to 4 foreign investors, who can then conduct business and enjoy the privelages of residency in Indonesia. The foreign investor cannot be a director of the company,{usual job title is Operations Manager} but the investor does take responsibility for the debts of the CV, the foreign investor also has full control (maybe shared with other investors) of the company assets etc, and is fully reponsible for all taxes for the company and the employees. The sponsorship has to come from the CV company, (Indonesian names)they have to complete many many complicated forms, and get approval from the Gov Dept in Jakarta. It is a costly excersize and time comsuming, many smaller companies also use Bali IDE to help them get working/investor sponsorship.

So unless your sister in law has already set up the clothing company as a foreign investor controlled CV company, they cannot sponsor you for your KITAS.

The second type of company is called a PT, this again has to be registered with at least 2 Indonesian citizens names, however this type of company is limited in it's liability of the directors (indonesian names).

There are 3 sizes of PT company which is determined by the gov department on application however as I doubt your sister in laws clothing company falls into the third catagory for a PT no need to give info about that.

The first is small PT and can only operate locally in the area that the company registeres in, If this company wishes to operate in Bali it also has to make the necessary registrations to the appropriate authorities IN BALI. This company CANNOT sponsor foreign employees. However it can upon formation sponsor up to 6 foreign investors, who can conduct business and enjoy resident privelages in Indonesia (much like the CV)but this is best to be done on the formation of the company, (it can be done with existing companies but it is like starting again, and costs the same as a new company registration)As with the CV and as Ubudian says many companies use Bali IDE to help them create these type of companies. So once again unless your sister in law has set up the clothing company as foreign investor controlled small PT then they cannot sponsor you as an employee.

The second type of PT is a medium sized PT company, this type is usually regisred to operate in a wider area than just locally, and can even be registered to operate throughout Indonesia, (depends on how much money is used to set up the shareholding/type of business etc)It still has to register in Bali seperately if it wishes to operate in Bali. The same rules apply to this type of company as the others,(Indonesian names/shareholders/directors etc) in addition this type of company can sponsor foreign workers up to 5 in the first 3 years. Or it can sponsor up to 6 foreign investors. So if your sister in law's clothing company is this type of company then they can sponsor you as an employee. The minimum wage the company can pay you is 8,000,000 Rupiah per month,and you pay tax at 25% for the first 3 months then minimum of 8% per month thereafter regardless of whether you receive a salary or not.(the minimum wage is countedas being paid by the tax authorities even if the company don't pay you, problem being when the company books are audited by the tax authorities and they see they hav'nt been paying you, they might declare the company as operating illegally/bankrupt etc, along with the concequences that holds.) So unless the company is making serious money then it is unlikely that they can afford to pay you The costs and administration for this are just as complicated as previously mentioned, many companies use the services of Bali IDE to obtain the working permits for foreign employee's

The third type of company is called a PMA, However as I doubt your sister in Law's clothing company is of this type and the new copmany rules regarding PMA and the holding of stock in these type of companies make the formation of this type of company almost obsolete now, there isn't any more info about this type that is usefull for your information.

There are many many other things which need to be considered and made right, for example your working Kitas will only be issued if you are employed in a position in a company that an Indonesian citizen cannot or is unavailable to do, and the Manpower dept of the Indonesian government requires every company employing foreing employees to train Indonersians to take over the position of the foriegn employee within 5 years.

The above is just a glimps and a very simlified (I hope) explanation and please be aware that if anyone intends to do business in Bali or is already doing business in Bali without the appropriate Indonesian business visa or PT company formation and Bali business registration, then they are taking a serious risk. Officials including police,immigration and other enforcement agencies do have regular and comprehensive inspections. The Bali police and Bali immigration department both have special units looking full-time for persons doing business in Bali illegally. Most illegal Bali business operators are reported or discovered during random inspections of passports or other operations. Penalties include heavy fines, imprisonment, deportation and seizure of assets.

There are agencies which will for a fee sponsor you for a Kitas it depends on what your working experience and CV is (basically thay have arrangements with existing companies who haven't used up their quota of foriegn employees)you are employes as a consultant the only draw back is that you have to have working experience for the type of company on their books, if they don't have one then they cannot sponsor you (for example manager of a power plant, assembly line worker or manager no way they have power plant companies or such like on their books!!!) and also although employed in a company as a consultant you would be totally responsible for all your taxes and any costs the company incurrs.etc.

All of this sounds daunting I know, thats why you should use the services of an agency as Ubudian says.It's not impossible there are many many here that do business and work here legally all the time, and have a good standard if not exeptional style of living.

You can come here and work or do business here illegally, as long as you don't get caught.

So unless you don't want to work sponsorship from an Indonesian as a visitor only looks like your best bet.

Whatever happens I also hope that you manage to get here and have a great time whilst you are here.

An excellent post from BesarRahasia...very comprehensive and spot on. She writes, “You can come here and work or do business here illegally, as long as you don't get caught.”

I’ve known several expats over the years that have been deported for that very reason, however, they were initially warned and given a chance to pay a fine and get into compliance. They chose to ignore the warning from immigration and to comply with the proper visa and eventually they were deported.

As BesarRahasia states, the police and immigration officials are getting more and more strict about this sort of thing, primarily because of lost tax revenues.

Earlier this week a new governor of Bali was elected. He is I Made Mangku Pastika who was the chief of police in Bali and credited for cracking the case of the Bali bombing. He is also known for having cracked down on illegal gambling and his very tough stance on narcotics. It is almost a certainty that he will be extremely tough on illegal business operations here in Bali, which is another reason to comply and to use a professional.

Furthermore I would also like to explain my reasons for suggesting you CONSIDER obtaining an Indonesian Driving License whilst you are here.

First of all let me say, that I know you don't need an Indonesian License and that an International License is sufficient, I didn't ever suggest (or I don't think I did) that it wasn't sufficient, however my reasons for suggesting you consider the option based on my experiences with many many people who use International Licenses only (for extended periods of stay, not tourists)are

1/ If the Internationasl License is lost/stolen or damaged, to get a replacement is slow and difficult, and in the meantime (although you would probably get a report from the police (at an additional cost)which allows one to continue driving temporarily)one finds themselves either driving without a license at the risk of being caught, or taking a car with driver. The police report only lasts a few weeks at best and it can mean the hasstle of repeated reports being made at ever increasing costs.

If you have obtained an Indonesian License then it is easier to replace if it gets lost/stolen or damaged, and in the meantime you still have the back up of an International Driving License which you keep in the safety box in your house saftly tucked away. Advantage CAN STILL DRIVE LEGALLY and hire cars self drive if needed.

Clients and friends of mine have had their International License washed by the maid who forgets to check pockets, Children playing with pens and crayons writing over them when they are left in accessible places. Wallets/Bags/Purses have been stolen or pockets picked, cars are broken into or stolen, or even people just plain lose them for no appraent reason. There are many many ways a flimsy paper International Licence can become useless.

2/ There is the possibility of the Police either deliberatly misleading and intimidating someone with an International License that something is wrong and therefore still needing to pay the fine!!! or genuinely not understanding what the International License is about. (This has happenned to clients of mine, so before someone says rubbish, it's HAS HAPPENNED and will probably happen again many times.

With an Indonesian License whenever you are stopped during a routine or random police operation, there is nothing they can do, as everything is of course ok, otherwise it wouldn't have been issued, and you are generally back on your way again quicker than the locals.

It's your decision completely,what you want to do. I was only making a further suggestion for you to consider, as per your original posing.

As Ubudian has already said, without a Kitas (Working/Investor/Retirement) you cannot purchase a car, you would have to use an Indonesian name, so at the risk of another tirade, another suggestion I would make is that if you do decide to purchase a second hand car (budget for around 50,000,000 Rupiah for a 1/2 decent machine, then depending on condition/use after 1 year expect to lose around 10 - 15,000,000 rupiah)then you should also get an agreement made by a notaries here in Bali and signed by the person you use, to say that they cannot sell/lend/or take a loan out on the car, without your permission, you should also include that the proceeds from any sale are yours to get back, (less any compensation payment you agree to for using the Indonesian name)

You then need to consider insuring the car, this is easily available although expensive compared to Western standards, it's difficult to say the exact costs but as a guide expect to pay
1/ Around 3.5% of the book value of the car (Jakarta based book price which is cheaper than in Bali)for fully comprehensive replacement loss or damage up to the value)
2/ Around 1% of the amount you wish the third party to be insured for (this covers you for claims damage or injury to someone you are invloved in the accident with) Generally the maximum you can take this amount to is 50,000,000 Rupiah
3/ Around .5 - 1% of the amount you wish to insure the passengers for, (Injury/hospitalisation/ambulance fee's etc)this again is limited to the maximum of 50,000,000 Rupiah
Expect to pay adminstration fees and legalisation of the insurance document of around 200,000 Rupiah

Expect to have to renew the SDN card (like road tax) unless you are lucky and it runs for the length of your intended stay, costs don't know it depends on the type of car/value etc, best you use the services of an agent to renew this for a commission of around 3 -5 % of the total for renewing. This saves you the hassle of doing it yourself which takes an age, and in the meanwhile you can't use your car on the road. (By the way if you are late renewing the SDN card there is a penalty which is very steep)

Compare that to a long term rental from a reputable hire company which would normally be a reasonably new car, includes the comprehensive insurance for third parties/passengers (which unlike what Ubudian suggests IS AVAILABLE on rental cars)and all services/SDN card renewal and a replacement car if you have problems with the one you rent, then my suggestion is to go with the long term rental as opposed to purchasing a second hand car.

Finally, this is nothing to do with your original question, and forgive me if you have it already covered, but you should also consider taking medical insurance out for you and your family. Normal travel insurance doesn't last for 1 year. Make sure the insurance covers all medical expenses incurred, and repatriation if necessary.

hope you have a great time over here during your stay.

Thank you Ubudian for your comments I am a He not a She (although some of my friends think otherwisw (HA HA)

Thats me in the background on the photograph, with my wife in the front which is usually the case in our life :)Although I wouldn't have it any other way (got to say that as she also reads this forum)

“That’s me in the background on the photograph, with my wife in the front which is usually the case in our life :)”

Sama-sama! :)

In really appreciate all the work put into these responses. I'm guessing that my sister-in-law has not done all the proper paper work. We will probably try to find a sponsor in Bali. Also, we have been on the road for 3 years and it is possible to have travel insurance for extended periods. Would it be very expensive to have a local insurer from Indonesia?

A great many, if not an outright majority of expats on Bali use Bali Medical Insurance for their medical insurance and emergency evacuation coverage. The person to contact is Sue Speak, and their web site is: http://www.balimedicalinsurance.com/

I strong echo BesarRashia’s strong suggestion that you get such coverage while you are here. It is not expensive, especially if you tailor your policy with a large deductible that you could easily afford to pay before the 100% coverage kicks in.

As for your sister’s business here in Bali, I can only speculate but it sounds as though she only comes to Bali from time to time to collect the items she is having made here and then arrange for their export out of Bali. If that about sums up what she is doing, than a kitas is likely not necessary for her, rather a business visa could fit the bill. There are some fine lines between what activities are allowable under which visas, and as previously noted, professional help is the only way to assure you have things properly set up. Cheers!