North Korea Travel Forum

Is it at all possible to drive your own vehicle from either China or South Korea as a tourist visit (with your own vehicle) drive abouth the country and leave after? I know the government is tight and it would probably be a nightmare, has anyone ever tried or done this does anyone know how to go about getting the visas/vehicle permits etc..?

I hope you are joking right? Not to be flippant, but it's not going to happen (unless you are a member of the royal family of KJI). Even then you would have some trouble. Even you could do it, your vehicle would probably become permanent property of the DPRK. I will check, but the only way to get into North Korea is with an organised tour if you are not a Chinese or North Korean citizen. This would be via plane, train, boat (Hyundai run), or bus (east side).

The joke is... you can now. And it's not a joke.
A Russian passport (or in the worst case a passport from ex-East-Block country) will not hurt tough.

http://www.travel.ru/news/2007/03/14/107592.html

Al,

There is actually a pretty tricky but very harmless way anyone (even people with American, Israeli or S.Korean passport) can get into contact with N.Korans (often simple villagers, migrant workers to Russia, etc.) for a time of 7-8 days. Also he can get into contact with some high-lever officials, Secret Service people - and what-not.

All needed is:

- a round-trip ticket from USA to Central Europe (Vienna, Prague, Bratislava is fine)
- about $300 cash
- a Russian tourist visa
- about 2 weeks of free time (and some more cash to spend on food)

This is how it works. There is a NKorean sleeping car attached to "Rossija" train twice a month. It is departing Moscow on every 25th (not sure about the other day). Who travels there is mostly N.Korean. Nothing prevents you from buying a ticket into that car (that will be about $300 from Bratislava r/t) and spending your time with as many N.koreans as you like, up to 27 people (the car has 28 beds). Normally it's less but there is always like 10 people in the car. In Summer it's packed. Since you do not have NKorean visa you will de-train before the border. But you can satisfy your curiosity.

If you happen to meet these people: please be gentle to them - it's a very different culture than yours. Most, even the sleeping car attendants (sure, they DO work for special service) are somewhat naive, even if informed.

See my other postings regarding the train.

The original post was could you drive you own vehicle into North Korea; not how do you meet North Koreans.

If your only desire is to get into contact with North Koreans, there is a much easier way than you presented here. There is quite a large population of expatriate North Koreans living in Japan in their own "neighborhood". They even have their own schools so that their children can stay "indoctrinated". In fact, their kids used to get attacked on the trains and at bus stops all the time because their parents made them wear traditional Korean clothes. Theses people travel somewhat freely back and forth to the DPRK via a ferry that comes into Nigata.

Your link is in Russian so of course those guys can get into the country. For US and British citizens it is still somewhat more involved to enter the DPRK on your own. There are some very special circumstances that would allow it (individual entry), but in general it is impossible for US and British to enter except on an organised tour.

Strictly speaking you are right: the article in Russian is about a self-drive entry in NK from SK of a RENTED car, first time in history organised that way. So it is assumed, you RENT, not OWN the car. And of course the car rental company you RENT the car from in S.K. has fairly close political/family ties up the north.

Back to the original post: you cannot drive your own vehicle even in China, at least it is not a trivial undertaking. It is possible and even entry via Friendship Bridge on your car is possible because in Socialism everything (and it's opposite) is possible. Just choose your battles the right way. If it takes quite a few month to organize a car entry from S.K. renting the car from the company which has strong "proxy" in the North versus quite a few YEARS to organize your own car to be allowed into China.... than maybe that battle is not worth to fight. Some people simply buy a used car in China than re-sell it later rather than take their own from abroad. And even than you will face quite a few problems on the Frienship bridge.


Regrading American/British entry: there is a strong misconception, a "NO" in Socialism is the same as "NO" in America. I happen to experience both, it's not the same! In one case it means literally: "NO, but.... khmmm.... it's actually 'NO'... but.... dunno... it depends... let's say for the time being, it's a 'NO'". In the other case it means "Scr**w you". Obviously in the case of NK a Russian or, say, Czech citizen has much less homework to to in order to obtain it than an American. But: if the answer is "NO" it usually means "do some more work to impress me". If the same Russian or Czech citizen goes to U.S. (or Australian or Canadian) consulate to get a visa and the answer is "NO" it can be translated into "f*** you": no playroom is allowed.

It is difficult to describe, when it's really a "NO" and when it's a "let's call it a 'NO'", Our "advantage" over you is, we have the feeling! LOL

Re-NK expats: I know about them and AFAIK it's not the best source for many reasons:
- sometimes a zealot can be holier than Pope, esp. if he is a zealot-in-exile. You know, what I mean.
- AFAIK these are looked with very mixed feelings in NK at, historically the relationship with Japan had some... issues... during the last 2000 or so years. The other way is also true.
- They are probably isolated from both Japan and NK much more than the migrant villagers. The situation (you are confined in a single car where no "Wessi" is expected) will catch some off-guard and present a situation they are not used to. Surprisingly it will reveal... that there is not much to reveal.

Back end of 70-ies/begin of 80-ies I visited China on my own using a loophole. I ws expecting somewhat heck-knows-what. My g/f was not expecting anything because she was born (as a doughter of a foreign mission employee) in Far East, she was expecting same things she did see on home movies and listening to her dad. Guess what, she was 100% right. I was shocked because there was nothing Chinese could surprise someone from East Block, just to the contrary, I expected much worse.

The Socialist system - as we know it - is always full a loopholes and reqires it's citizens know and adapt to these - otherwise it cannot exist. Your personality and your family background will determine, what "ropes" you pull. Your personal success in the life depends on your success with the loopholes.

Also in many countries "backscratching" is the way of life since thousand of years (I scratch your back, you scratch mine). In Russia, Central Asia, Balkans, Hungary, China, Mongolia, VietNam without "backscratching" you are a dead man. Why NKorea would be any different?

The proper way for a British or American citizen to get the NK visa (if they really want) is to find who'se back they can scratch without sacrificing much on their side and going into legal problems. With the idea of taking own car accross Frienship bridge that "backscratching" is obviously more difficult and more work.

All,

Forgot to say one more thing. This is a serious forum - so I am sorry, I won't post a link to certain things you can find on YouTube. You certainly can find a few very emotional scenes which will make your fists hit the table.

There is one particular movie (again, I avoid link) which involves area around Hoeryong and Yuson. At the end shows a crowd slowly dissolving and trying to reach a certain freight train at the station of Yuson. Yuson is few miles from Tumangan. The entire Tumangan-PY (as well as most other lines) is AFAIK under 1.5KV DC (maybe 3.0KV DC??). They use either locos originally made by Skoda (and locally re-manufactured) or some pretty interesting re-built M62 (M62 is originally a diesel, in NK some were re-manufactured as electric).

What I do not see on the YouTube is the cathenary for these ChS-2 or M62-E. on the station of Yuson. It's nothing there. Was it removed? (Unlikely as right now work is progressing to improve the track between the Tumangan-Radjin) Or maybe a main line through Yuson was not considered to be electrified at all, with some cathenary only at Tumangan? (Sounds like a bad joke) Or maybe the station is not Yuson??? Than.... more questions will arise, but no answers.

I cannot say anything, but very often small artifacts ("wrong" outlets, "wrong" cars in the background, etc. ) are the problem of fake videos. The number of railway buffs who expect to see cathenary at station of Yuson is pretty small, I guess, 99.99% of the people won't even notice. Just some thougts. Maybe I don't see or maybe it's there or who-knows. But at this point I just scratch my head and say "what the heck..." And if you visit my home page here on V.T. you problably will believe, I did see quite a few trains in my life and you have to work hard to surprise me on that area.