Technical Forum

Hi there,

I am about to build a page for Saint Pierre and Miquelon but it is listed under North America. Saint Pierre and Miquelon is actually apart of France. Is it possible to have this correctly displayed in the VT database?

Jamie

There are probably places with those names in Canada.

I see what you mean, they are near Canada but belong to France. This is one of those situations where the physical location has overriden the political situation. Send a note to Feedback about this. They may already know about it, altering the location database is not something they do often.

They are part of North America but owned by France.
Kind of like why Guam is not part of North America but owned by USA

Yes as I said it's the physical v political difference. It's hard. I find the Physical location fine.

And correct Pam. I would be very lost looking for these islands in Europe

There are parts of France in the Caribbean too. For instance Guadeloupe which includes Basse-Terre, Grande-Terre, Marie-Galante, La Desirade, Iles des Saintes (2), Saint-Barthelemy, Iles de la Petite Terre, and Saint-Martin (French part of the island of Saint Martin). But Guadeloupe is in the Caribbean even if it belongs to France.

So in a similar fashion, Saint Pierre and Miquelon ARE in Northern North America, because they are islands in the North Atlantic Ocean, south of Newfoundland (Canada).

Yes thats what i was referring to when i mentioned Physical location.

I knew that was what you meant. I was trying to explain why the physical location was the correct location for the VT database, because it IS displayed correctly IMHO. There doesn't need to be a note to feedback about it.

There are enough real errors to go around, without adding to them stuff that is correct.

There are many example of such a situation. Martinique, Guadeloupe, French Guiana (this is how it is spelled in VT location database!), Reunion, though all French 'départements' are all listed as if they were countries. At first, I found that crazy and shocking but at second thought, it is logical. Any geographical entity, country or part of another country, that belongs to a continent or a subcontinent will appear under its own name.

Though, I have found a few exceptions. The whole Turkey is listed under Middle East, though a part of it is in Europe! Ceuta and Melilla are listed in Spain though laying in Africa while Gibraltar stands in Europe on its own. Canary islands listedare under Europe > Spain > Canary Islands though they are stuck to the African coast!

Some funny data about the TAAF (Terres Australes et Antarctique Francaises), ie French Southern and Antarctic Lands
The Kerguelen Islands appear under :
Antarctica > French Southern and Antarctic Lands > Île Kerguelen.
Though 'French Southern and Antarctic Lands' is a geographical entity, you can get when you feed the search engine with its full name, but 'French' will give it!
Île Saint-Paul (8 km2) île Amsterdam (58 km2) are also listed under French Southern and Antarctic Lands but Crozet islands (archipelago) does not. I found that each (may be not all of them!) island appeared under its own name: Ile de la Possession (150 km2), Ile aux Cochons (67 km2), Ile de l' Est (130 km2), Ile des Pingouins (3 km2).
Terre Adélie belongs to the TAAF but does not appear in the database. It had not to appear as Terre Adélie is not an internationally recognized entity.

Amazingly, Falkland Islands are listed under South America and not under Antarctica, though they are about at the same distance from the south pole than Kerguelen islands! Sh, do not say that to Argentineans!

While looking for frozen lands, I wondered about the Diomede Islands and found:
Europe > Russia > Chukotskiy Avtonomnyy Okrug > Big Diomede Island
North America > United States of America > Alaska > Little Diomede Island
Wow, Big Diomede is now in Europe, that is a scoop, indeed! Actually, that means that the whole Russia is under Europe! Let us check it:
Europe > Russia > Primorskiy Kray > Vladivostok
Europe > Russia > Irkutskaya Oblast' > Irkutsk
This is greater Europe, indeed, from Canary Islands to Greater Diomede Island!

Conclusion: forget all of it and use VT data base as it is. No use to warn Feedback, building a geographical database is a tremendously difficult job that can never be perfect!

I only mentioned a note to feedback so they could have their gripe and get an answer as we know staff don't often answer this forum, as it is for members not staff liaison.

They bought the database already compiled :-)

I know Pam, but we have better to find answers by ourselves when we can. Thanks to you and to Rosalie, I can now avoid most VT database traps and there are many!

I consider myself suitably chastised for adding to the VT workpile unneccesarily and promise not to make that advice again ;-) IN fact I see not much need in future for me to answer questions. i have more stuff to do in other places .....

Pam, I am sure you will go on answering wisely to questions on the forum as you have always done!

:-))

I'm sorry Pam, I did not mean to chastise you. I was reacting to the "Is it possible to have this correctly displayed" part of the message, as I think it is correctly displayed.

Most of the time when I tell 'feedback' about errors, I do not get answers back. The only way I find out that they have fixed some error is if I happen to go that way again. It didn't occur to me that you were thinking that they would get a more complete answer that way.

Besides which, when I first joined, I thought you WERE an official part of the staff. You were very nice to me, and I don't want you to stop acting as an unofficial ambassador - I would be crushed if you meant to stop answering questions because of something I said.

Rosalie, I completely agree with you.

Actually, when I was a newbie, not so long ago, I always got helps and (wise) advices from both of you, Rosalie and Pam. I felt that both of you were almost official part of the staff! I will never thank you enough for all what you told me! I know that you are helpful for many. Thanks Pam, thanks Rosalie!

Thanks for all the feedback. The point about geographic location is well taken.

Jamie

addendum:
For other situations, if you write to feedback, yes you may not get a reply, but that is the official and best way to advise of a problem, glitch, mistake etc.
They, the staff, save those emails whereas they don't always remember forums posts and writing to staff via vtmail is lost evenutally. Feedback is where they not all jobs to be done etc. just for your future note. thanks.

's ok Rosalie :-)

Thank you Jean-Louis, it's a nice feeling to help people, I don't always get it right, but I try :-)