Utrecht Travel Forum

Hi,

I am moving to Berlin but am having second thoughts. I read some negative things about living in the Netherlands, and was wondering how you guys like it, and how it compares to Berlin.

Thanks.

what negative things?

Well I for myself wouldnt prefer living in Germany.

From an economic standpoint I should say, that living in the Netherlands is better. Unemployemnt in Berlin is about 20%.
Also the Netherlands are much more international oriented.

The only positive thing about Germany to me is the German bread and the lower VAT rate.

PJ

And the house prices in Germany are lower (up to 50% when buying). Not sure if that also applies to Berlin though!
have you tried www.expatica.com yet? Has some forums on both countries!
Good luck, P.

I'm not sure. I think the complain is that the Dutch are REALLY friendly in the beginning, but they're REALLY difficult to get to know as friends once you actually move there.

I ordered The Undutchables book, so maybe that'll give me an insight.

Please don't rely entirely on what you read in "The Undutchables". Although many of these things are true, some are really rare and most likely won't even happen during your stay in the Netherlands. Not to mention that some things are simply the authors' personal observation, which means it can't be treated as a fact!
It is not difficult to make friends with Dutch, it is difficutl to get used to the way they plan everything. To meet with Dutch you have to book a day, far in advance, they'll pull out their "agenda" and will inform you when they are available. First it was confusing me, but now I have my own "agenda" and learned a lot from my Dutch friends about time management.

Good luck with your move, whatever country you choose.
Nathalie

So, I have an agenda!

Sure Nathalie is right about the Undutchables. It's just a fun book about Dutch extremeties.

To really understand us you must know what lekker, gezellig & nuchter means.

PJ

PJ, I thought you don't need any agenda. As far as I remember, if you can't show up for a meeting (or coming late) you send Swanet instead.
I still remember our meeting: the atmosphere was gezellig, beer was lekker, and you were nuchter LOL

I don't like some of the very general entries here. Berlin is an exciting, vibrant, fast moving international metropolis. Pretty much the same can be said about Amsterdam, which has Canals, whereas Berlin has the vast waterscapes of the Havel lake and Spree rivers. The truth is: nobody can help you answering this question because where is better entirely depends upon your own personal preferences and background. Whatever your options are, check them out before and don't rely on what ideas and opinions other people have.

Nathalie, you have a good insight in the Dutchies!

RhineRoll, what were you doing at Amsterdam today anyway... haha!

PJ

I agree with Winfried's comment: it depends on your interests. If by any chance you are an opera fan, you will find more to keep you happy in Germany than in any other country in the world, including the Netherlands.

But I've had great times in both these countries (both are fine for cycling, for instance), and since you come from New York (where I also spent four years in an earlier phase of my life) I think you will find Germany and the Netherlands to be very similar.

Since the question was posted in the Utrecht forum, I assume you're coming to Europe to study. If yes, then I guess the choice of University is more important than the country itself.
Don't know much about studying in Germany, but here in the Netherlands I can assure you that you won't have time to make friends every day. But I can promise you that you'll be loaded with so many group projects that you'll have no other choice and we'll be socializing with Dutch people more than you could ever imagine.

PJ, I had a great time, also thanks to you :-)

I noticed Utrecht has an outstandingly beautiful suspension bridge when driving through it earlier this day :-)

I still believe though that questions like "where is it better, where are people nicer" etc. etc. are pointless -- just like the answers they are likely to produce. When I was living in Denmark as an exchange student, I got very good contact with Danes because I joined the local table tennis club. The majority of exchange students had few outside contacts with locals, some even had none and didn't learn any Danish at all. Some of these Danish-refusers still had a great time because they enjoyed the international atomosphere within the exclusive exchange student and international expatriat circle. They liked what I would have considered a complete failure judged by my own standards and goals. There was also one guy who hated Denmark until he fell in love with a Danish girl... both of them are living in Denmark now, happily married to each other... :-) It really all depends on who you are, what you want -- and quite often also on pure coincidences...

I think I have to repeat te joke that once was posted about 2 guys in a bar:

Do you love Americans?
No!
Do you love Russians?
No!
Brits?
No!
Well, Germans, Frenchman or Dutchmen???
No!
I give up, who do you love?

My friends!


I guess it is the same with countries. We just love this planet to explore.

PJ