Travel Forum

I would have liked it if the front page of Virtual Tourist website paid some tribute or showed attention to what is happening in South East Asia. I don't expect very much, but there must be victims among the members, and all of us care. I just find it strange to see the usual photos from wherever in the world these special days.

It is difficult to handle it, but I do think there should be something. Considering the scale of the disaster...

Having seen how this sad event has not only directly effected so many countries but indirectly effected perhaps the whole world i too feel a few words of respect could be posted by VT. Its not just the countries involved, its so much more then that. I'm finding myself that although i am not involved its hard to escape the reality of this. A friend of mine was in the area, thankfully i learn he decided to head East and not West when he was in Malaysia, and living in the most northern and closest city to Indonesia its obvious the effects this is having. Only yestereday i read of 5 US navy ships now not visiting my home, thereby denying thousands of dollars of income for the stores etc who would have been utilised by those visiting sailors.

I know this isn't something good when compared to the enormity of this disaster, but just making a point that there will be more long term effects then the obvious short term ones. These effected countries have lost so much. I for one though know that i will continue travelling and shrug off these natural disasters and always encourage others to see the world and interact with others.

From my travels comes understanding and from understanding comes my sense of giving.

Keti...probably they should have written at least 2 sentences to remeber people died in all catastrophies you mentioned. In this wbsite we speak about travels, we dream...but outside there's the real life....should be respectful remember who hasn't been as lucky as us!
We all know that media have great powers and can make a story to speak more or longer than other stories....but I hope people are not so stupid to think that this disaster, or another didn't happen only 'cause TV doesn't speak about them.....

Excuse...maybe I'm too candid....but WHY have us to make comparison between numbers, situations, underlying if in that disaster there were more western people than in the other one?
Disaster is disaster, deads are deads, their nationalities are indifferent, orphans are orphans....all of this is so silly

Everyday I've been sickened over the disaster in Indonesia. When will the death toll stop climbing. Sort of reminds of an other catastrophe, Iraq.

I see your point, Keti. It's basicly the well known about ehoncentrism, eurosentrism, USAsentrism and the way the media works. And in many way you're right,and I understand the purpose of VT cannot be to report and reflect the sufferings of the world.
The disasters you mention were tremendous, the chinese ones have always been very difficult to comprehend, I've not forgotten Bam, but have to admit the momries are fading.

Still you can count bodies till your finges are blue. When someone close to you is taken, you react even if it it is just one. I don't care that much about the numbers any more, I just see that an incredible amount of people in so many countries, poor and rich are affected. Deeply and right now. This is reflected everywhere around me. And I thought it could be natural to see some sign of this also on the VT page. But what's in the forums, is more important, and I respect the other way of thinking.

Craic....you're right saying that it' s not necessary a formal recognition..but..don't know...for me it sounds as..."ok...folks..nothing so important happen..let's go on".Maybe It's my mistake this way of seeing the thing...

Google has a link on its home page - 'ways to help with Tsunami relief'' and that seems to me appropriate for VT - ie. a simple link through to a similar page

Keti, the disasters you mention happened way before VT and the internet, so why should they be mentioned on here except by individuals on their pages if they have an interest!

As for this disaster it kind of puts the loss of 3000 on September 11 and the proceeding phoney 'war' on terror in perspective, doesn't it????

I personally don't expect VT to put something like an "official statement" on the front page as there is ample opportunity and lots of personal/forum webspace here devoted to this disaster.

The media coverage is huge, and I do fear it has something to do with our own people quite affected from this. The human disaster in Darfur/Sudan continues without getting very little, if any, coverage. (just an observation, no accusation intended)

There would be very little benefit from an official VT statement aside from fulfilling the questionable standards of political correctness. We have our politicians for expressing public concern, and the fact that some of them are screwing up their statements showing how badly they are informed does not make it necessary to put VT staff into a similar role.

I would assume they are just as shocked as everybody else, and if they personally wish to speak up here, they can do so.

You know.....yesterday coming back from job I started speaking with my mum about all this....maybe beside my being very emotional, there is also the fact that my cousin, with wife and child was there (they are ok, shocked but ok),or the thing that my holidays have always been "self-made-tourist"and I could have been there as well..anyway I've decided to make donation and I told this to her and..my mum, always open minded, said that we 2 could share, it's too much for me"..she hadn't realized how much was my need to help....and this impressed me...it means that very often we permit to the society to line us up. We forget, we decide to don't see...it's very sad!

Hello Hans,

It's a very sad time for the World, and as others have mentioned here, just one of many such days in recent History. and there will, unfortunately, be more of these Natural Disasters.

However, referring to your question. I would suggest that it is not really feasable to expect the VT Staff to re-write the Home Page. to do so would require rewriting programs, and probably involve shutting down the system. I would suggest that it's better to allow people to post on the Forums, as they are doing now, than be without this wonderful site, even for a few hours. But to re-write the Home Page program would be quite a lengthy task. The only thing that VT could do, is to post something in the VT Community News section, but what would they say that has not already been said by us, the members?

And I think that we have this site, where it seems, hundreds of new members have joined since Sunday, just to enquire about families and friends, is making a valuable point in itself. I'm sure that the VT Staff are reading as many of our comments as they can, but their own work must still go on. It's sad, but there you are.

It's much the same as people posting about holidays in Thailand in the coming months, or how they will celebrate New Year's Eve this year. We all have our own thoughts, and some will celebrate, some will just sit quietly and remember those less fortunate.

I would respectfully suggest that just being a part of this wonderful site, communicationg with each other the way that we do, is all that is required at this time.

Regards to you all.

Geoff

ps. One VTer has written something on his Home Page. He is a survivor. I'll post the details next.

Keti...I really can believe it!!!!

Hi Again,

VT member darthmilmo (Fernando Milmo) writes from Kuala Lumpur, on what happened, as seen through his own eyes:

http://www.virtualtourist.com/m/tt/5d633/#TL

Thanks, Geoff.

I think if it becomes confirmed that VT members are among the victims, there will probably be a notice posted in the "community news" section -- if the relatives don't object. Very sad news in that case.

Rhine...it was my fear....!!!!!
:-(

It can be so easy, look at Lonely Planet:

Lonely Planet extends our deepest sympathies to the victims, families and communities impacted by this tragedy.

The last VT Community News dates from November 16; that can be easily be up-dated.

Well, my thoughts and prayers are with all families involved. I try to help where I can and I ask you all to lit a candle to remember all the people that died.

PJ

Well, so far we still can hope that no one from VT got hurt or killed. However, the fact that victims will remain or not remain anonymous to us doesn't really change the terrible fate and tragedy behind the person's name, does it?

The list from Keti is overwhelming. I still wonder which numbers that could be reckoned as confirmed. Last night I talked with my doctor brother, who is on the way to Thailand and who is in the lead of WADEM(World Association for Disaster and Emergency Medicine) For the last 10 years he's been working on improving the way we handle catastrophes wolrdwide. He didn't have a list, but there was no doubt that he expected the eartquake/tsunami to be one of the biggest and maybe the biggest he had confirmed knowledge about from his lifetime. But he also pointed out the tendency to forget.

Still Ketis numbers might be correct(and even too small) I'll just hope that the future will give us better ways to handle and diminish all disasters and better knowledge about what's happening also in the places that were out of media focus earlier.(who wouldn't?)

Yes, Pieter it can be very easy. That's just why I think that the many individual statements and reactions from VT members -- in whatever shape they may come -- send out a much more powerful message. This is a community effort. We can speak for ourselves and don't necessarily need someone speaking for us. Of course VT staff or individual members can do the same, either for themselves or in the name of the entire VT team. But I don't really think they are morally obliged to do so or should be criticized for not speaking out.

To Keti: It's good to focus on what is positive after all. For sure norwegian can afford it(and more) And for sure USA can afford more.

Winfried,

I'm glad the small VT-staff makes it possible that we have these forums and can offer as much help as we do in this way.
I respect it when they do not react on the Home page.

PJ

Just a few minutes ago I got a one sentence
"breaking news" email from ABCNEWS.com
which said simply:

"DEATH TOLL FROM TSUNAMIS RISES TO MORE
THAN 114,000"

Death, as they say, is the great equalizer -- no
respecter of social or economic status, nationality,
religion or anything else.

My thinking --- yes --- think it would have been
appropriate for VT to have made some kind of
acknowledgment. A link on their homepage to
various disaster aid centers, as was suggested
earlier, think would have been appropriate.
(And if this link couldn't have been added to
VT's homepage in less than five minutes and
with no interruption of the page service --- then
possibly they should consider updating their
software.)

On the other hand -- I don't for a moment think
VT is being callous about this matter. All over
VT --- as has been pointed out here -- in various
forums --- compassionate discussions are going
on. And on many VT homepages there are
heart-wrenching messages, accounts, and
the like. (Think this service provided for free---
think it's testimony enough for VT.)

And for my part, I'm not cynical. I think the vast
majority of people *care* --- feel the loss as
a gigantic, tragic one for humanity. Consider
this thread --- with caring posts coming in
literally from all over the world --- saying,
probably, about all that can be said at such
times.

And yes there have been other tragedies and
will be more in the future. And yes wars kill
innocents. But hopefully none of that will
hardened us to the point that we no longer feel
for anything or anyone outside our own
immediate little circle.

-Gary

Very well said, Gary, I especially agree with your last sentence. Thanks for putting it so well.

Keti,

How about the meteorite that hit Tungussky on July 30, 1908?

PJ

I only wanted to point out that "countries which are blessed with wonderful climate" are not the only countries with a disaster possibility.

Although the chance on a meteorite impact is smaller than a Tsunami happening, it still can happen any moment (statistics versus the real world).

PJ

Keti said: "and in comparision to the yearly national gross production, norway gives the biggest amount of humanitarian aid per year and united states the smallest amount."

One thing that is different between many of the more socialistic countries and the U.S. is that we don't rely on the government to be the only source of aid in a crisis. I don't have the numbers, but a news article I was reading earlier today was talking about this very subject. I am just paraphrasing here as I don't have the article at hand so I may be a little bit off.... But...

Non-government charities in the U.S. have donated and contributed more for aid around the world in the last 2 decades than the government officially did. And as they are non-governmental agencies, they do not get caught up in the beaurocratic red tape that one government dealing with another government must contend with. They go straight to where the aid is needed and provide it. Several more factors that are not considered when everyone is trying to show how mean and stingy the U.S. is when dealing with the monetary side of a disaster is that our military is quite often some of the first on the scene, provide material support as well as logistic support in the transportation of good, purification of water, etc. Those are expenses that the government is already paying for and don't show up on your average "tally sheet" of who is contributing the most scoreboard.

And as the needs arise, we will do more than what is initially stated. We almost invariably contribute more to a nations recovery from a disaster like this than was originally forecast.

So please, stop spouting about who has contributed the most, who should do more and why you feel that the U.S. isn't doing enough. Let's just do what we can to help the vicitms and the affected countries get back to a semblance of normalcy!

As for the original question of the post, I don't believe that VT should post anything on the main page. This is a travel site, not a humanitarian or news agency. I think it is awesome that not only are people coming here for information but in many cases are receiving news about people that have been affected. That is the service that VT can provide. Keep the forum open and available for people to post their inquiries and allow those who may have information to respond in kind.

Perhaps they could make a forum listing specifically for people searching for others and pin it to the top of the forum listing, put it in the help files, FAQ's or something like that.

When and if we find that we have lost VT members, I believe it would be appropriate to post in the community news, but right now is not the time/place for VT to be venturing in to that. IMHO, of course.

I have not jumped every time someone mentions the U.S. But it does get tiresome to have people constanty saying that the U.S. doesn't do it's share, it is stingy, it needs to do more, we have so much and others have so little, etc. We DO care about other countries and peoples, we DO share, we DO respond to disasters, we DO provide relief. It was not *I* that brought up how much each country has contributed or pledged to contribute. Unlike some people, I KNOW that our government has flaws. In some ways our government is better than others but in other ways others have a superior method.

As I said, I don't care who contributes what. I just hope that we come together effectively enough and quickly enough to minimize deaths due to starvation, disease, etc and get the affected areas back to a semblance of normalcy as soon as it is possible!

I agree to the idea of mentioning on the home page.
I think VT should definitely acknowledge this catastrophy on the Home page.
I wrote some staff members but haven't heard anything. Even if VT wouldn't normally do this, this is such an abnormal situation and the worst disaster in modern times.
Peace and respect and all my deepest sympathy for anyone affected by the disaster!
And let's hope for a good year of 2005 despite all!

//Maline